Episode 134 - Keep Going but Be Gentle

Even with the powerful growth that can happen in coaching, the pressure cooker we’re all living in—the broken systems, the financial stress, the world that feels terrifying—can make everything feel harder, and much of it is beyond our control. But it doesn’t feel hard because you’re weak; it feels hard because it is hard. In this episode, I talk about how remarkable it is that we keep going—keep showing up for ourselves and others—despite it all, and how to be gentler with ourselves in the process. Here’s what I cover:

• A powerful coaching conversation about self-doubt and resilience

• What it looks like to let more than one thing be true at once

• Why “every little bit counts” when everything feels impossible

• How to know when your body is asking for rest instead of pushing harder

• The power of staying connected to yourself when you can’t fix everything in the world 

Find Sara here:

https://sarafisk.coach

https://pages.sarafisk.coach/difficultconversations

https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/

https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/

https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach

https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333

What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!

Book a Free Consult

Transcript

00:58

I was having a conversation with a client today that turned out to be just such a beautiful moment between the two of us. I wanted to have the same conversation with you because she showed up to her session today really struggling with a lot of self-doubt and self-criticism. 

 01:17

She is high achieving. She has a full-time career that matters a lot to her. She has children who she loves and wants to show up for. She is married and wants to be a loving and attentive partner. And she is in perimenopause. 

 01:37

And today it just felt for her like it was kind of all coming down around her. And that's what we're working on, right? She's the type of woman who is keeping all the plates spinning. And a lot of the value that she feels in her life or why she is valuable is because she does keep everything going, right? 

 01:58

She can handle it. I'm going to call her Angie. And Angie gets a lot of like reward and recognition for being the person who can get multiple projects done at once. And she is smart and she is, people rely on her. 

 02:15

She comes through. And all of that today felt really, really heavy for her. And we ended up doing some coaching, but also just having a conversation where I said, Angie, one of the things that is hard about being a coach is that, you know, I'm trying to help you develop skills and learn how to do things differently, which I'm capable of doing, which you're showing up to do. 

 02:44

But very rarely do we sit back and name like all of the broken structures that you are trying to exist in and all of the pressures and all of the kind of outside influences that are happening right now. 

 03:03

Like we live in a unique time in the world when democracy in our country is on the decline. And that has an effect, right? We live in a time when the gap between people who have billions and billions of dollars and people who feel like they're not going to make it from week to week is just getting wider and wider. 

 03:27

And that is a dynamic that we live with that we can't really fix here in our coaching sessions. And so in some ways, I want to be honest that while I am able to help you develop new skills and learn how to handle your emotions better and speak up and set boundaries and know what you want and learn how to trust yourself. 

 03:49

Like all of those things are true and you can do them. There's also a certain amount of bullshit that's happening in the world, in your body, that we're not going to be able to control because it's bigger than us. 

 04:05

And I asked her, would it feel helpful if we just talked about the pressure cooker that you're living in that has nothing to do with you? And she said, oh, it just feels like I'm being the victim. I said, Angie, we are the victims in some ways, right? 

 04:23

Things are happening to us that we don't control. We can always choose a response. And that's what I think coaching is really good for is helping you choose a response. But that doesn't mean that the broken systems are not there. 

 04:38

And so we just went through and talked about what is it like to live in a country where you see scenes playing out on the news that you never thought would happen in your country. And the sadness and the worry, the way that friendships and relationships have been fractured and affected by politics, pandemics, by the way we parent differently, right? 

 05:05

We go to different churches. Like there's, there's fault lines in a lot of our relationships now that aren't for reasons that we fully control. I know that I am grieving relationships and friendships that are with people who are still alive. 

 05:24

They're not gone, but the relationship is different. There's a financial stress that so many of us are living with now that didn't used to exist, right? Everything costs more. Everything feels like it costs more. 

 05:40

Everything feels like it takes so much more effort. In a lot of ways, that low-level financial stress is constant and relentless. And while, yeah, we can work on some of the way you think about that and the way your parts are showing up in coaching, there's a very real financial stress that we're not going to be able to easily alleviate. 

 06:07

And that takes a lot of people doing more than we are able to do. Our elected officials have to act in our behalf instead of against us, against our best interests in a way that it seems like is happening all over the place. 

 06:25

The world sometimes can feel terrifying, war, hurt, anger, rage. The news can sometimes feel like a horror show that you can't look away from. Climate change, wars, rights being rolled back, political chaos. 

 06:46

It's all happening at once. And we're supposed to just go to work, make dinner, try to carve out something that feels normal in this. And I said, Angie, you're doing amazing. You are still getting up. 

 07:05

You are still showing up. You are still trying. I think one of the things that gets tricky for women is, do I rest or do I still show up? And so we talked about, is this your body showing you I need some rest? 

 07:22

Right? Being in perimenopause is really, really hard. Your body, it feels like betrayal. It feels like systems are not working anymore the way they worked once or were supposed to. And it can feel like there aren't ready solutions. 

 07:43

There isn't a pill that you can take that's going to make you feel better in 60 minutes like a headache. So many of us are suffering with a lot of health consequences that we don't yet have really good fixes for. 

 07:57

You're exhausted, but you can't sleep. You're hungry, but nothing sounds good. Your body feels like it's doing things against your will. I can't remember words. I walk into rooms and forget why. And I'm also still trying to figure it out. 

 08:12

And she said, I do feel like it's hard to know. Do I rest or do I show up? And that's when we talked about letting more than one thing be true at once. Like we're so exhausted. And there are reasons why we want to keep showing up. 

 08:33

That's one thing women know how to do is to keep showing up, especially when everything is falling apart. I'm not saying that you should, because if multiple things can be true at once, maybe you also need to rest. 

 08:49

We have done some incredible things as women, carried humans in our bodies, held families together while holding jobs down, doing things to become better caregivers, better partners, better mothers, all while going to the store and making sure there's something for dinner. 

 09:09

In some ways, we have been handling impossible things our entire lives. And the fact that that now feels hard, that's because it is hard. It doesn't have anything to do with being weak or being too emotional. 

 09:25

But if we can let more than one thing be true, what if we can show up and we can rest? What if we can keep going because there are things that matter to us and reasons why we want to keep going, but we don't have to keep everything going? 

 09:43

What if there are some things that we can let go of? Angie, in so many ways, is resilient in a way that she's not giving herself credit for. She's been through heartbreak and loss. She's been through transitions that terrified her. 

 10:03

She has had things happen that she thought would bury her and days when she was sure that she couldn't do it. And we acknowledge that together. And that she is still here. She's still trying. She's still loving people when it's not easy. 

 10:22

And she's still hoping, even when it feels foolish. She is still showing up, even when she is not sure what it's supposed to look like. And that's not weakness. What if you too are allowed to be tired and proud of yourself for showing up? 

 10:40

What if you're allowed to be exhausted by all of this and still recognize that you're doing something remarkable just by getting out of bed tomorrow? What if we can be scared about the state of the world today and still find moments of joy and beauty and silliness and connection and reverence and awe because those things exist together. 

 11:11

And I just want to clarify, when I say keep going, it doesn't mean be fine. It doesn't mean be okay or that everything, that you should look like everything is going well, that you should push down your feelings or smile through it or be positive and grateful. 

 11:30

I don't mean any of that. I don't mean do more, try harder or try better. I just mean don't abandon yourself in this process. Stay connected to the part of you that needs rest and give that part some rest. 

 11:46

Stay connected to the part of yourself that's feeling whatever it's feeling, exhausted, angry, panicked, scared. And just let yourself acknowledge that without judgment. And then decide just what is the next thing that I want to do? 

 12:05

I want to sit right here and take five minutes to myself. I want a drink of water. I want to text a friend. I want to read a poem. Rest when you need to rest. Rest is so essential. And it is a right. 

 12:23

You deserve to rest. You're doing so great. You're doing so much. I know it. Maybe you could ask for help. Maybe you could let someone love you in a way that you don't normally let them. Maybe you could stop trying to do it alone. 

 12:41

Those are all ways to give ourself some relief and rest. Back when blogging was the thing, I had this idea that I wanted to start a blog and I would start it and then I would stop it and then I would start it and I would stop it. 

 12:56

And I was like, this isn't a blog. This doesn't count because I'm not doing it consistently and I'm not growing, you know, my readership and blah, blah, blah. I don't know. This was probably around 2000, I don't know, five or six. 

 13:08

And I decided to change the name of my blog to Every Little Bit Counts because chronically I was telling myself that only the big things counted. And I wanted to cultivate the belief that every little bit counts. 

 13:26

Getting out of bed, that counts. Putting on real pants, gold star. Feeding yourself something that is nourishing, fantastic. If it's just cereal, that counts. Saying no to one thing that I really don't want to do, that counts. 

 13:48

When I text a friend and say, I'm really struggling today with the weight of how everything feels, that counts. Letting myself cry, that counts. Purposefully finding one little reason to be joyful or happy that counts. 

 14:08

I think for so many of us who are used to just carrying the load and Angie, all the plates spinning, we get into thinking like, it only counts if I keep all the plates spinning. That's not true. Any plate that you can keep spinning with all the shit show that is going on around us, that counts. 

 14:31

What I wanted, Angie, to reflect on and what I want each of you to know is that you're amazing. You are not doing this wrong. If you're tired, if you're grieving, that's right. You're not being dramatic. 

 14:52

You have a heart that cares about connection, about other people. If you're scared about money and the future and the world, that's not being weak. That's you seeing potential issues and being awake in the world, being awake in a world that is full of pain sometimes. 

 15:14

And you're doing amazing. You are whole and beautiful and perfect in a world that is broken. And you're still here. Trying to make it better. Trying to take good care of yourself and the people you love. 

 15:33

That's fucking extraordinary. And you're not alone. I know it feels lonely. I feel lonely. I think that's something kind of unique about the pain that we feel as we look out kind of in the suffering of the world. 

 15:48

It can feel really heavy and really lonely. And a lot of us would say that we're barely holding it together. And in a way, that's actually the point. We are all in this impossible moment together, doing our best with bodies that are changing, relationships that are shifting, a future that seems uncertain, a world that feels like it's losing its mind some days. 

 16:17

And we're doing it together. Keep going, but be gentle. This isn't something that gets to be done perfectly. There's not a perfect way to do this. It is not something that we are all going to figure out. 

 16:33

We are not going to heal these global systems of oppression and disenfranchisement. We are going to be able to make a difference in our circles with our votes, with the communities that we belong to. 

 16:50

That's where we can really be nurtured and show up to nurture. Don't lose sight of the fact that we all exist in these broken systems and we're still showing up. We are not going to be able to fix all of these systems, but we can stay connected to ourselves. 

 17:10

We can stay connected to our needs. We can have a nap or a glass of water or chocolate chip cookie or a conversation with a friend whenever we need. And we have to keep choosing ourselves that way so that we can continue to show up for other people that we care about. 

 17:30

And I know you're trying so hard. I know you're doing the best you can. I know you're showing up for the people that you love with the best parts of your effort. And it's not always the same. So take a deep breath. 

 17:47

Put your hand on your chest or your heart and say this with me. I am doing the best I can. And that's more than enough. I am showing up the best way I can. And it's going to be enough. Because it is. 

 18:05

We're going to be okay. Not perfect. Not all fixed. That's not the point. That's not what we've been going for. But we're going to be okay. And we're going to do it together. I have a lot of faith in individual people who want to create places of peace, places of beauty, places of rest, places of acceptance. 

 18:27

And we're going to do that together. Thanks for listening. I'll see you next week.

Episode 133 - What Avoiding Conflict Really Costs You

Conflict is one of the most paradoxical things I’ve encountered—in my own life and in the lives of my clients. For those of us who have been shaped by good girl conditioning, conflict most often feels like danger and disconnection. But when it happens within a container of safety and self-connection, it becomes a doorway to vulnerability, intimacy, and power. In this episode, I explore why we avoid conflict and share personal stories that demonstrate the freedom you can find when you say what needs to be said. Here’s what I cover:

• How the emotional burden of unspoken words lives in the body

• How cultural and gender conditioning teach people socialized as women to stay silent

• Two real-life examples of how I apply what I teach about conflict and communication

• Why self-love and compassion are essential for knowing when and how to speak up

• How practicing the skills to have hard conversations leads to freedom and connection

Find Sara here:

https://sarafisk.coach

https://pages.sarafisk.coach/difficultconversations

https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/

https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/

https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach

https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333

What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!

Book a Free Consult

Transcript

00:58

One of the most paradoxical things that I have dealt with in my own life and with clients, both in personal, private coaching and my group coaching program, is conflict. 

 01:12

Conflict is something that almost universally by myself and by good girls, we just, we don't want it. We don't want to run into it. We don't want to have anything to do with it. It feels bad. It feels dangerous. 

 01:25

It feels scary. We don't feel like we're good at it. We're worried about, you know, being too emotional and not being able to control our emotions in conflict. We're worried about not knowing what to say, feeling silly or stupid or dumb. 

 01:39

We're worried about potential danger, right? Not feeling safe. And all of those things are true. And when conflict is done well with people who are either willing to do conflict well with you or with whom situations of safety are present, conflict is actually the door to freedom, to vulnerability, to connection, to intimacy, and to power. 

 02:09

And it is such a paradox because it feels like disconnection. It feels like danger, but it's actually the pathway to deeper connection. It is transformational. It's just such a mind fuck because this thing that feels so potentially overwhelming, so potentially scary in certain circumstances can actually be so healing. 

 02:40

And I want to tell you about a couple of incidents of conflict that I have had where I've leaned in in two different ways. And actually, I'm going to do a two-part series. I'm going to talk about two conversations this episode and two conversations next episode that really have contributed in huge ways to me seeing myself differently and being able to show up in the world as a person who can have conflict in ways that feels healthy and that gets me more of what I want and need. 

 03:16

And at the very least, allows me to say what needs to be said. So many of the women that I talk with, that DM me, that I meet through coaching, myself included, we carry the burden of all of these things that we are not able to say. 

 03:33

And when something is not said, the effect of that, the emotion, the burden, the load of that lives in the body. And so it is no wonder that we feel this press of resentment or anxiety or grief or rage or sadness or like we're not heard and we're not seen. 

 03:54

A lot of that is because there are conversations that we don't know how to say. There are words, there are opinions, there are needs, there are wants that we have silenced and it creates a real weight. 

 04:10

The emotions accumulate and then those feelings like take up residency in our bodies and they create distance from ourselves and from others. And another part of the paradox is that we're staying silent to avoid discomfort, but that silence itself becomes another layer of discomfort that we just live with. 

 04:34

I can't tell a story without giving it some framing, right? Because there is a really good reason. There are lots of really good reasons why cultural and gender conditioning teaches us to stay silent. 

 04:48

It's the good girl programming. Don't make waves. Keep the peace. Be nice. Don't be too much, too loud, too needy, too dramatic, too emotional, too opinionated. And the fact that we have been given millions and millions of those little micro messages our whole lives is why it's hard to say what needs to be said. 

 05:09

You can be labeled as difficult or bitchy and bossy and dramatic. And all of that messaging is real. When you take up space, you're selfish or aggressive. It's real. And what happens is that women are taught that our voices are less valuable, less authoritative, and there is an expectation that we defer to expertise outside of us, usually men. 

 05:40

We're socialized to smooth over conflict, to manage everybody else's comfort. And there's a real cost of being likable versus being honest. And so many of us have run into that, or we have seen other women run into that and pay the price for that. 

 05:58

And so it serves as another mechanism to keep us in our place. Maybe you can remember early experiences where you were told that you're overreacting. And so your feelings weren't valid, or your perceptions were dismissed or questioned or even made fun of. 

 06:19

Maybe you learned that expressing needs led to punishment or people that you loved and wanted to be connected to would withdraw from you or that you were labeled ungrateful. All of that really, really matters. 

 06:34

I received a lot of that messaging as well. And so it is kind of in the context of all of that messaging that I want to share these stories. One of the things that I always want to be is doing this same work right alongside you. 

 06:49

It's important to me to, in the words of one of my former mentors, to be an example of what is possible and to constantly be testing out what I am teaching on myself. And these two stories are good examples of that. 

 07:07

And they're examples of what I want for each of you. So both of these randomly happened at the gym. I go to a rec center. It's more of like a, I'm the younger crowd. Let's just, let's just put it that way. 

 07:22

And so there's a lot of older people there. And I was using a machine with an attachment, one of the cable machines at the gym, and a much older, much larger man, this guy's probably, I don't know, over six feet tall, easily 250 plus pounds, approached me. 

 07:40

I was listening to music. I didn't see him until he was right in my peripheral vision. It startled me. And he was waving a different attachment at me. And he said, you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to be using this. 

 07:55

And he was holding up, you know, the attachment that he thought I should be using. And I had a fawn response. I smiled. I started like laughing and deflecting. And I said, oh, you know, you startled me. 

 08:16

What? Tell me what you said. I didn't hear you. And so I invited him to tell me again. And so he repeated, you know, you're doing it wrong. This is what you should be doing. And when you do it this way, you know, this could happen. 

 08:28

And then I felt a little bit of anger and irritation. And so I smiled and said, you know what? I'm comfortable with how I'm using this. I've seen other people use it this way. And so I'm just going to keep doing it this way. 

 08:41

And then I put my AirPod back in and got back to my workout, but my heart was pounding. I was sweaty for more reasons, you know, I was working out, but I was also just really startled. And I noticed my nervous system response. 

 08:56

I noticed the instant fawn response that I didn't address the interruption, right? Or the assumption that he could come over and correct me. And so as I kind of started to calm down, the first thing that I did was to affirm to myself, of course you did that. 

 09:18

Of course you fawned. This guy like totally startled you, right? He came up. You didn't see him until he was right there. I was so gentle with that fond response, where in the past, I would have been really frustrated with myself. 

 09:34

I would have victim shamed and blamed myself. But I was recognizing that that startle, fond response was so normal and that it wasn't my fault and that what had happened to me was absolutely normal. And then I told myself, listen, if we want to talk about how to address what you're frustrated with, right, his input, we can do that. 

 10:01

But I just, I lathered myself up in so much self-love and gentleness and really affirming for myself that it made sense that I had responded that way. And that is something that I have worked really hard to develop, to not go to frustration and self-condemnation. 

 10:21

And so that night, as I was thinking about it, I just took the time to decide, do I want to address this? Do I want to have a conversation with this guy about the fact that his input and feedback was not asked for and so it wasn't welcome? 

 10:37

And I used the process that I have taught about finding the words and practicing saying them so that I could also have practice, not just with getting the words out, but with the feeling that I was going to have. 

 10:54

Because normal nervous system responses when you're talking to a man who is twice your size is to be anxious, possibly a little afraid and scared. But I was willing to feel that because I had decided, number one, that I was going to do it in a way that felt safe to me in a public place in the gym. 

 11:16

That is a really important consideration. And I'm going to talk more about that in just a little bit. But I had decided that I wanted to address it, that I was safe addressing it, that I could find the words, and that I could manage the feeling okay. 

 11:31

And so all of that in place, I actually practiced a little script that I wrote out. And so I decided that the next time I saw him, whenever that was, I was going to have this follow-up conversation. The next morning, as the universe would have it, we were walking into the gym at the same time. 

 11:52

And so I went up beside him and I said, hey, I'd like to address our interaction yesterday. Unless your feedback is asked for, it is not welcome and it is not appropriate to approach me with correction or with advice that I haven't asked for. 

 12:09

And I had planned to leave the conversation there and just kind of, you know, go on my way. He started, of course, well, you, you know, and well, I just had to. And so I continued the conversation and said, and furthermore, one of the things that is clear to me is that you're not actually trying to solve a problem. 

 12:29

Because if you really thought that that machine being used in that way was really going to cause a problem, you would have talked with the people here at the rec center about posting a sign, or you would be up there telling everyone who uses the machine that way, you know, that there was a problem with it. 

 12:48

But I can tell you're not actually trying to solve a problem. You're just looking for someone to correct. And that someone is not going to be me. And then I decided to turn and walk away. And I, my heart was pounding. 

 13:02

My nervous system was up, right? Heart pounding, blood pumping, all of the things that happen in some difficult conversations. But I felt so good. I felt really good about what I said. And I felt really good about the way that I was able to stay with my body. 

 13:23

I went to the bathroom after that. I calmed myself down. I showered myself with a bunch more love and praise that I had handled it in a way that I was really proud of. And then I went back to working out. 

 13:37

Story number two, also at the gym. In order for this story to make sense, there is a man who is in charge of every local LDS Mormon congregation, and he is known as the bishop. He is a lay minister. What that means, he doesn't, you know, he could be an accountant Monday through Friday, and then on Sunday, he is the spiritual leader, right, of this congregation, which is known as a ward. 

 14:05

The bishop really oversees all aspects of ward life, right? He interviews the members to see whether or not they're keeping all the rules so that they can go to the temple or participate in, you know, the different aspects of religious life. 

 14:22

He is really in charge of every single aspect of religious community and participation and discipline. And so in a lot of ways, I grew up with the idea that the bishop is this literal representative of God in that congregation, somebody who can receive inspiration on behalf of the members. 

 14:46

And for men and women, his approval can directly affect whether or not I'm considered worthy, whether or not I serve in different positions and have different responsibilities. And for a woman who is raised in that system, especially a good girl like me, the bishop represents like divinely sanctioned authority whose approval really equates to God's approval. 

 15:18

So that is the context for this next story. And it also happened at the gym. So I went to the gym in the middle of the afternoon, which I never, ever do. I say that because I really believe that when you are ready to work on something, the universe gives you opportunities. 

 15:38

And just like I just happened to be walking in the gym at the same time as the big guy who interrupted me, I was at the gym at three o'clock in the afternoon because I had had some cancellations in my schedule. 

 15:51

And I saw my bishop, my old bishop from the time when Dan, my husband, was leaving the church. And this bishop and I have kind of a painful history. There were some things that he participated in, that he did directly to my family, to my children, that he did directly to people that I care about, including me, that interactions that I had with him that felt really problematic. 

 16:21

I used to call him the nicest asshole I knew because he had this way of being really nice-ish, like smile on his face. But a lot of the things that happened were really painful. And I have carried that. 

 16:38

I, from time to time, would see his wife in the morning when I usually go. And I would just have this like, ugh, feeling. I fantasized for a time about writing him this anonymous letter where I kind of laid out all of my grievances and all of the hurt in a way that, you know, was really an attempt to not carry it all myself, but I never did that. 

 17:04

And there he is at three o'clock in the afternoon. And I noticed him see me. And I thought, shit, I don't know if I want to talk to this guy. And right as he was coming over, I got a phone call, which gave me a minute to collect myself. 

 17:23

After the few minutes of speaking on the phone, I pretended to continue the conversation on the phone because I needed a minute. I needed a pause, right? I teach that the pause is one of the most important things we can give ourselves to calm our nervous systems, to kind of come back to ourselves and make a decision about what we want to do. 

 17:43

And I knew in that moment, I really had three options. I said to myself, hey, Sara, if you want, you can totally leave. You can just walk right out, not even talk to him, pretend like this never happened and go home. 

 17:58

Number two, your option is, if he comes over to you, you can have a fake, pleasant conversation. You can pretend like everything's fine. You can smile. You can nod your head and just kind of bluff your way, pretend your way, perform your way through the nice conversation, air quotes around nice. 

 18:18

Or number three, you could have an honest conversation and you could ask him if he has a moment for some honest conversation. And I thought about that and I gave myself enough time to decide, okay, if I were to choose that, how would I feel? 

 18:36

Well, I would probably feel nervous and maybe a little emotional. Could you handle that? Yeah, I think I could handle that. What if he got mad? How would you handle that? Well, I would just turn around and leave. 

 18:47

Okay. So I knew that I could handle each of those conversations. And I decided that if he came over to me, I would go for option number three. So when he came over and initiated a conversation, I said, hey, do you have a moment for some honest conversation? 

 19:09

And he said, yes. And I said, even if it feels a little bit prickly in the beginning. And he said, yes. And so we kind of walked off to the side and I told him I laid out each hurtful incident clearly. 

 19:27

I didn't pull any punches. And I noticed some emotion coming up, some sadness and some hurt that is still in my body from the time that those things happened. And I said to him, you'll notice some emotion, some hurt that I still feel, because those things happened at a time when my family needed graciousness and generosity and care and grace. 

 19:55

And I didn't feel like we found it with you in particular. And I've carried that for a long time. And then I also said, the other thing that I can also acknowledge is that I believe that you were doing the best that you knew how to do at the time, that there were probably some other things going on for you that I wasn't aware of. 

 20:20

And so I can hold both of those things, that you hurt my family deeply, and that you were probably doing the best you could. And then I stopped talking. And I saw him try to find some words and some emotion come up for him. 

 20:38

And he acknowledged that he wishes he would have treated our family with more compassion, that he was really struggling to do his job with the kind of compassion that now he wishes he had been able to do. 

 20:54

And I'm not going to go into the details of everything we talked about, but it was a lovely conversation that really cleared the air and kind of cleared that space between us. And I walked out of that gym feeling like I was flying. 

 21:15

When I really tried to ask myself, okay, what are you feeling that feels so amazing right now? It was freedom. It was freedom. And it was that type of like alignment and congruity and integrity with myself that I don't feel all the time, but I'm feeling more and more. 

 21:38

And I'm telling these stories because I know that we all struggle with having these kinds of conversations. And we want to be able to be honest without letting really big emotions overtake the conversation and kind of overpower us, that we have patterns of avoiding conversation because we are afraid of getting too angry or crying or breaking down. 

 22:06

And that it is a skill to hold those emotions and let them be present without being consumed by them. I'm not saying that you need to always control your emotions and conversations. I think some of the most powerful moments of conversation can be when we let those feelings really take center stage and we let people see our emotions. 

 22:32

But I also know that sometimes that doesn't serve the conversation or the outcome that we want. And so I'm sharing these conversations that I have had because it felt like freedom for me. I was no longer carrying his actions for him and the emotions of those feelings, right? 

 22:53

The resentment, the hurt, and that unspoken pain was gone because I had shared it with the other person who was in that situation with me. There was also freedom from the story that I had told myself that I was bad at having these kind of conversations or that my emotions would take over and that that was a good reason for not having them. 

 23:19

There was also freedom from the fear of my own emotions that they were somehow bad or that the presence of them would mean that I couldn't be honest in conversation. There was freedom from being silent, realizing that speaking up didn't destroy the possibility of connection that it actually created it. 

 23:42

Because even though I don't think this man and I are going to have, you know, a long friendship, I could now see him across the room and wave, say hi, acknowledge him, and totally mean it. There is a connection now that didn't exist before then. 

 24:00

And I'm no longer held hostage by the what if, what if I run into him, what if I see him, which I have had before with people. There's also the freedom from fearing physical sensations, right? That the clenching in my chest that used to happen around difficult conversations. 

 24:21

The freedom from performing, from having to perform niceness that so many of us are stuck in. And I think the deepest freedom is from the connection that I now have to myself, trusting, knowing that I can handle hard things. 

 24:42

I can handle hard conversations. So a couple of things I want you to remember. This doesn't mean you always have the hard conversation, right? There are actual safety concerns. It's also important to ask yourself, do I want to spend the time doing this? 

 25:00

Do I want to spend the emotional energy doing this? Is this a relationship that has the capacity for this kind of honesty? If the answer to those questions is no, then it's no. This is not a prescription. 

 25:16

I think you need to ask yourself, is this person capable of hearing me? And if they don't, am I okay with that? What am I hoping to get out of this conversation? I was hoping to say what I needed to say, and I felt pretty sure that I could handle whatever happened. 

 25:33

But this process is very personal. You get to decide when to speak and when to stay silent because both can actually be acts of self-respect and power. I share because so many of us want less anxiety, less resentment, deeper connection, more trust, more vulnerability, more intimacy, and the feeling of freedom. 

 26:01

And that is something that can be developed by practicing skills. If you are tired of carrying the weight of unsaid things, if you want to know what it feels like to walk out of a hard conversation feeling lighter and freer instead of heavier, if you're ready to stop abandoning yourself in the name of keeping the peace, there are some things you can do to start small. 

 26:25

You can notice what you are not saying and get curious about why. Always practice with lower stakes situations first. And then you can get some support. I would love to support you. I would love to teach you the skills, to show you how to manage your beautiful nervous system and to lather and slather yourself up and down with love and with care in a way that actually makes these conversations more accessible for you. 

 26:56

If this feels like something that you are ready for, you can go to my website, Sarafisk.coach, and schedule a call with me because I want everyone to feel this type of freedom. I want you to remember speaking up isn't about being brave all of the time. 

 27:13

It's about building a relationship with your own body, your own voice, your own words, and then sometimes slowly, sometimes scared, but truthfully, finding ways to speak up. And that feeling of walking out lighter and freer, more connected, more deeply honest to yourself is something that is available to everyone. 

 27:39

And I would love if you would let me know if this story resonated with you or if there's something I can do to help you start to build that freedom in your own life. Thanks for listening. I'll see you next week. 

Episode 132 - How Over-Apologizing Hurts You and How to Stop

Because every one of us has been raised with the good girl rules—to be nice, agreeable, and never rock the boat—almost every woman I work with has the habit of over-apologizing. You’re capable, you’re accomplished, and you work hard, yet “sorry” slips out at the beginning of every sentence. In this episode, we explore how over-apologizing hurts you and how to practice a different way of showing up. Here’s what I cover:

• How over-apologizing lowers your authority in other people's eyes and trains your own brain to see yourself as less valuable

• Why it’s important to consider what you’re trying to accomplish with your apology

• Why pausing before you speak is the foundation for breaking your over-apologizing habit

• The power you’ll reclaim when you replace “I’m sorry” with “thank you”

• Why increasing your capacity for discomfort is key to stopping over-apologizing

• A practical homework assignment to complete your own apology audit



Find Sara here:

https://sarafisk.coach

https://pages.sarafisk.coach/difficultconversations

https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/

https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/

https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach

https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333

What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!

Book a Free Consult

Transcript

00:58

Because every single one of us have been raised with the good girl rules and we know exactly what is expected of us to be nice, to be kind, to never rock the boat, to not make people feel uncomfortable, to always be the one who defers or accommodates or acquiesces. 

 01:15

Every single woman that I work with has the habit of over-apologizing, and it's not your fault. What I want to talk about in this episode is how it hurts you and how to stop. Because by far and away, I think apologies feel like throwaways, right? 

 01:33

Oh, I'm sorry. My fault, my bad. They feel like they're not very important. But as I have worked now with hundreds of women and looked at this habit in myself and in the women that I coach, it actually is a real problem for a couple of reasons that I want to point out. 

 01:52

And I want to give you some help on how you might look at this habit in yourself and make some different decisions. I was working with a client last week. She had worked almost 60 hours to present some quarterly results in a big meeting with shareholders and with the C-suite of the company where she was working. 

 02:12

And inadvertently, she started her presentation with, sorry, I know everyone is busy. And she could feel in her body that she had positioned herself as an interruption rather than a valued contributor. 

 02:29

I have done this myself. You know, I want to talk to my husband about something that's important. And I have heard myself say like, hey, I hate to bring this up. I'm sorry. And all of a sudden I'm apologizing for having needs, having wanting to have a conversation about something that's important. 

 02:47

And so if you've caught yourself doing this, saying sorry before you speak or before you ask, before you exist, then I really hope that this episode is going to give you some ideas to think about and some ways to change how you show up. 

 03:01

Because here is what I know. You're capable. You're accomplished. You're working incredibly hard. You are trying to make relationships valuable and deep and vulnerable in home and with people that you care about. 

 03:15

And in your professional life, you are trying to show that you have excellent work. And the problem is that when we apologize, we unconsciously message that the way we are is not okay, that being good at what you do somehow requires you make yourself smaller to make other people comfortable with your excellence. 

 03:42

And I really want to take a hard look at that. What is really happening when you apologize is that you are putting yourself in what is called a one down position. Everyone else is above you. You have some powerlessness and some victim-in-ness, right, in that one down position because you're signaling, I was wrong or I'm less than even when you're not. 

 04:08

And this does two things simultaneously. Number one, it lowers your authority in other people's eyes. And it trains you, your own brain, to see yourself as needing an apology, less than credible, less valuable, less deserving of space. 

 04:27

For high achievers, this is particularly insidious because you're often apologizing for the very things that make you valuable. Your standards, your attention to detail, your thoroughness, your expectation of excellence, the internal standard that you hold yourself and people who work for you and with you too. 

 04:49

Think about it. When was the last time that you said maybe something like, I'm sorry for the long email, when that email contained crucial information, or sorry to be picky when you were actually ensuring quality, or sorry to push back on this when you were trying to point out something that would prevent a costly mistake at work. 

 05:11

You're apologizing for doing your job well. There are parallels to that in home relationships as well. When you say sorry for bringing something up that needs to be addressed that is weakening family ties, when you want to address behavior that is problematic in the home and you apologize, it makes it seem like what you want to say isn't really valuable and isn't really important for other people to listen to. 

 05:42

I have found that this is more of a reflex rather than choice for most women. There's no pause. There's no assessment. It's really just a knee-jerk habit that doesn't actually ask the question, was harm actually caused here? 

 05:57

Because that's what apologies are for, right? Apologies matter when they are about repairing harm. But when it's a knee-jerk reaction, we don't give ourselves the chance to even reflect on what is really needed in this moment. 

 06:13

Do I need to acknowledge some awkwardness? Do I need to bring attention to a different dynamic? And when I throw out an apology, when I haven't caused harm, what am I trying to accomplish with that? That's the first question I want you to think about. 

 06:32

When you apologize as a knee-jerk reaction, what are you really trying to accomplish? I have some insights on that, and I'm going to share those in a minute, but I want you to just think about that for a second, because most of the time, the answer is nothing was wrong. 

 06:48

There was no harm done and no apology was needed. And so if I'm apologizing in a knee-jerk way, what am I trying to do? Where did I learn that? Where was I taught or given the programming that I should be the one to put myself in this one-down position? 

 07:06

And for what purpose? There are some real reasons why over-apologizing is actually harmful. We've talked about a couple. First, it erodes your confidence and influence, right? When you're constantly apologizing, you look less secure and less competent, even when you are neither of those things. 

 07:26

Other people might start to unconsciously question your judgment before you offer it because you've already apologized for it, giving it the air of less than valuable, less than real. We talked about the fact of how it trains your own brain to see yourself that way. 

 07:45

There's another reason, though. It weakens an apology. When sorry is like verbal filler, it loses all of its power. When you actually need to take responsibility for something that matters, if apology is just kind of the way that you make everything okay, it doesn't have the weight that it should. 

 08:07

You've devalued the currency, let's say, of your apology by offering it so often and with so little thought. Another reason why apologizing is actually harmful is because it increases self-blame and anxiety. 

 08:25

You're conditioning yourself to assume responsibility for everything that goes wrong, even things outside of your control. Your nervous system starts to treat every interaction as something you need to fix, you need to manage, or you need to smooth over. 

 08:43

I remember clearly a man bumped into me with his shopping cart in the middle of an aisle, and I apologize, and I felt a little rush of guilt or shame. Was I in his way? Was I doing something wrong? I wasn't. 

 08:59

I was just getting my bag of chips, right? He hit me. But the self-blame and anxiety that we feel as chronic over-apologizers is a real thing that we carry with us in the world, and it keeps us small. 

 09:18

Apologizing becomes a way of shrinking into a more palatable version of yourself. That's what I was doing in the aisle with my shopping cart, like shrinking, like literally trying to get out of his way, instead of widening my capacity to hold a moment of silence or awkwardness where I don't say anything to make it better. 

 09:46

So many times, what I'm working on with clients is how to increase their capacity for discomfort. Offering knee-jerk apologizing instantly shrinks you from something that's taking up space to something that is shrinking to try to get out of other people's way. 

 10:06

It's really teaching people to question your authority and your right to take up space. Oftentimes in the workplace, it's like this subconscious tax you are paying for being good at what you do, especially if you're a woman. 

 10:26

You're apologizing to make yourself palatable and to make yourself okay for those around you. And there's one other thing that I don't think gets talked about very much. Over apologizing creates resentment, both in you and your relationships. 

 10:45

Because when you're constantly making yourself small and convenient for everyone, there is a part of you that's keeping score. For me, in my mind, it sounds like this. I am trying so hard not to be a burden here. 

 10:59

Why aren't you doing the same thing? I apologize for everything. Why don't you? I try to make myself palatable and easy to be around and likable. Why aren't you? And that resentment can build up in romantic and personal relationships, in work relationships, and just kind of the way we move about the world in general. 

 11:22

I remember on a very recent trip to Costco, I just had this like anger as I was trying, you know, maneuvering my cart, trying to get my stuff. And what I was thinking was that same thing. I am trying so hard to just be good and nice and get out of people's way. 

 11:40

Why aren't you? At all the people who were leaving their carts in the middle of the aisle to go get their sample. It just felt, I was so angry. And it was all from this way of thinking of, listen, I try to keep myself small and nice for everybody. 

 11:57

Why aren't you? And so if you feel some of that, this might be where it's coming from. That resentment builds. And it can be confusing because you're the one choosing to apologize. And yet I'm also, well, I guess I shouldn't say me, I'm the one choosing to apologize sometimes. 

 12:16

And I'm also angry that other people aren't matching my level of self-diminishment, making myself convenient for other people. It just becomes a losing game. Because here's what most people don't realize. 

 12:34

Over-apologizing doesn't make you easier to love. Over-apologizing does not make you easier to work with. And there's a chance it's actually making you harder to be close to, exhausting even. Because when you apologize for, let's say, asking your partner to do their share of household responsibilities, or you preface every request to a friend or to a coworker with, sorry to bother you, or apologizing before you give feedback to your team, 

 13:10

which is your job. You're making other people manage your emotions before they can respond to your actual need or engage with your actual points. Think about it. When you say, hey, I'm so sorry, that is going to elicit a response in the other person where they either have to dismiss your apology or manage it for you. 

 13:36

Oh, no, no, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. Yeah, tell me what, what do you need to talk about? And the very thing that we're doing to try and be quote unquote low maintenance creates high maintenance. 

 13:48

It creates this whole kind of thing that we have to work through before we can get to the actual issue. So if over-apologizing is harmful, why do we keep doing it? Here's where I want you to have a lot of compassion and understanding for yourself. 

 14:09

There is a nervous system component. For many people, pleasers, apologizing is a fawn response, F-A-W-N, Fawn. It's a survival strategy that we learned to keep safe. If I apologize first, maybe I won't be rejected. 

 14:30

Maybe I won't be criticized. Maybe I won't be abandoned. There is something inside of us that uses apologizing to be safe or to try and maintain connection. Somewhere along the line, we learned that if I don't have needs or if I can make myself small and palatable, then I will have a place. 

 14:50

There is a real nervous system component. Second, there's learned conditioning. Many of us, as I mentioned in the beginning, learned that the good girls, they're always agreeable. They never cause discomfort. 

 15:05

They don't take up too much space. And apologizing becomes the way we signal, I'm not too much. I'm not a threat. I'm safe to be around. I will make myself small so that the discomfort is either all centered on me and so that you don't have to deal with any discomfort. 

 15:24

That learned conditioning is real and it's not something that we chose. And so as you start to see it in yourself or become more aware of it, I want you to be really gentle and really tender with yourself. 

 15:38

Third, there might even be what I could call some strategic thinking or what we might think is strategic. High achievers, many of them have learned that apologizing makes their excellence more palatable. 

 15:54

They have learned you can be smart, you can be capable, and you can be successful as long as you make other people comfortable with it, as long as you make it easy for others to be around your competence. 

 16:07

And they do that by apologizing, by diminishing their contributions, their thinking. But I think here's something that needs to be understood. It's not actually strategic. It is self-sabotage that is dressed up as politeness. 

 16:25

Let me ask you something. How many times in your relationships at work, at home, everywhere else, have you brought up a legitimate concern and then ended up apologizing for bringing it up? It might sound like, sorry, I know you're tired and doing a lot, but I'd like to talk about how the household responsibilities are divided. 

 16:51

Or, I'm sorry to be so sensitive, but can we talk about what you said earlier? Or, listen, I'm really sorry that I, you know, I know we're all really busy, but I feel like we need to talk about the numbers that such and such department is producing. 

 17:08

You're apologizing for having standards, for having needs, for having feelings. And that really contributes to the one down position that most people pleasers feel like they are in all the time that they try to get out of by pleasing. 

 17:28

It also teaches everyone around you that your needs are an imposition, that your feelings are inconvenient, that you're the problem, that your standard of doing things is somehow bad or wrong. It is really common for the women I work with to want to address something in one of their relationships and to end up apologizing for it. 

 17:51

Okay, so how do we actually stop? I'm a big fan of the pause. You have heard it in other episodes. This is the foundation. Ideally, we pause before we apologize. Before the word leaves your mouth, ask yourself, did I actually do something wrong? 

 18:13

Is this situation calling for an apology? Like, is there something to repair here? Do I need something else like empathy or understanding? And third question, what would happen if I just said nothing? 

 18:32

The last one is crucial. Sometimes the most powerful thing you can do is just allow silence. Just let that moment be what it is without rushing in to fix it with an apology. Now, if you've already apologized, I want you to do this work even after it's happened. 

 18:54

So let's go back to me in the grocery store. The man hits my back of my legs with his cart. And I say, oh, sorry. Now, it's already happened. The words already left my mouth. But I need to go back and take myself through these questions. 

 19:08

Number one, did I actually do something wrong? No. Number two, what is this situation actually calling for? You know what? It was just a human interaction. And number three, what would happen if I just said nothing? 

 19:25

That's where a little bit of discomfort comes up. Because if I can imagine it without the apology, he hits my legs with the back of his cart. I notice him. And then I just say nothing. That is where your capacity for discomfort increases. 

 19:43

Because when you choose to not rush in and make it better, if I were to have chosen to not rush in and make that situation better for him, we would both just get to stand there in some silence and get to decide what we do without me trying to smooth it over. 

 20:05

So sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is just allow some silence, to just let it be what it is, awkward, whatever, without trying to smooth it over. Step number two, I want you to think about some alternatives. 

 20:21

Instead of saying, sorry, I'm late, try, thank you so much for waiting. Instead of, hey, I'm sorry to bother you, try, do you have a moment? Instead of saying, you know, I'm sorry for the long email or for having so much to say, try. 

 20:42

I really value being thorough or I want to be thorough here. Instead of saying, you know what, I'm sorry, I have a question. Try. I have a follow-up question. And I want you to notice how these alternatives shift the energy from you being in the wrong to you just acknowledging someone else's patience, someone else's time. 

 21:08

Because I do believe that it is a good idea in relationships that we care about to acknowledge when people wait for us, when people are spending time on us, right? There's nothing wrong with that. But our discomfort with that, the way we have been programmed to be uncomfortable is what leads to the apology. 

 21:27

And so I want you to just notice the energy shift away from there's something wrong with me, I shouldn't be saying this, I'm a bother, to just the acknowledgement of what the situation really is, whether it's somebody else's patience with you, the time they're spending with you, or the fact that you're both working to create something here together. 

 21:51

So if you want to make it really simple, I want you to just try replacing every sorry with thank you. And I want you to watch what happens. So, hey, thanks for your patience. Thanks for the feedback. 

 22:05

Thank you for making time for this. It's a small change, but it's going to have a big impact. One of the places where it has massive impact is building your tolerance for discomfort. Most of my clients, heck, I'm going to say all of them, me included, we need to increase our capacity to hold discomfort. 

 22:29

That's what this is really about. We please to diminish our own discomfort or our perception of other people's discomfort. And we need to increase our capacity to let other people feel their feelings and for us to not run from our own feelings. 

 22:49

When we stop apologizing, when we stop asking for permission, when we stop overexplaining, we increase our discomfort tolerance. And that is a hugely rewarding skill. When we can allow silence, when we can allow disagreement, when we can say things like, I know this might be hard for you to hear, instead of, I'm so sorry. 

 23:16

When we can say, I totally understand that you feel that way, instead of, I'm so sorry. When we can say, you know what, your thinking on that makes a lot of sense to me, even though we have a difference of opinion. 

 23:32

Instead of, I'm so sorry, right? Those phrases allow us to hold our ground without apologizing for it. And they acknowledge the other person without diminishing ourselves, without putting ourselves in that one down position. 

 23:49

They create space for discomfort without making you responsible for eliminating it or making it better. I'm going to say that again. They create space for discomfort without making you responsible for eliminating it or making it better. 

 24:09

Because that's the tension that people pleasers live with, right? If there's discomfort, it's my job to fix it. If somebody's mad, I've got to do something about that. Here's the truth. When you stop reflexively apologizing, there will be some discomfort. 

 24:29

You're going to feel it. Others might feel it. And that's okay. Discomfort, especially when it's acknowledged, that makes it okay. It makes it normal. And discomfort isn't damage. That's one of the things that we need to think and hold in our hearts. 

 24:52

Other people being uncomfortable doesn't mean that there is damage to relationships. Discomfort is normal. Discomfort is a normal part of human interactions. And our job isn't to make everyone comfortable all the time. 

 25:08

Our job is to show up with integrity, to communicate clearly, and to take responsibility when we have actually caused harm. So a couple of things. I gave you some phrases to try out, right? I also want to give you a little bit of homework. 

 25:28

For the next 48 hours, just keep a note in your phone or somewhere. And every time you say sorry, I want you to write it down along with what you were apologizing for. And at the end of 48 hours, I want you to categorize them. 

 25:45

How many were for actual mistakes that you made? Okay, those that might be where you, you know, an apology is necessary or even needed. Number two, how many times did you apologize just for having needs or opinions? 

 26:03

How many times were you apologizing for other people's mistakes or inconveniences? And how many of the apologies were just verbal filler? Most women, myself included, are really surprised to discover, I'm going to guess, 80 to 90% of the apologies fall into those last three categories. 

 26:26

Apologizing for having needs and opinions, apologizing to make everybody comfortable with mistakes or inconveniences that aren't even yours to own, or just verbal filler. Once you see your pattern, you can start interrupting it. 

 26:41

Once you see how you can increase your capacity by just letting the silence be what it is, it gives it a purpose. And oftentimes it's so valuable that we're more willing to do it. So save the apologies for when they really matter, for when you've truly caused harm, when you've hurt someone, made a genuine mistake, or done something else. 

 27:06

That's when I'm sorry has weight and integrity. And when you reserve your apologies for real situations that need repair, your apologies become powerful again. That's when they mean something and people take them seriously. 

 27:23

Last, I know what you're thinking. If I stop apologizing, are people going to think I'm mean, I'm arrogant, or I'm difficult? Here's the truth. The people who matter, the ones who respect competence and directness, will actually find you more credible and not less. 

 27:44

They will trust you more because you're not undermining your own authority and requiring them to address your apologies by saying, no, no, no, it's okay. The people who want you to be small and apologetic, yeah, they're not going to like it that you don't apologize anymore. 

 28:03

They're not your people. And they're trying to continue your habit of shrinking yourself to keep them comfortable. And you're going to have to decide what to do about those people because they're not your people. 

 28:18

They want you small and they want you palatable. There is a massive difference between being collaborative, being open, and being apologetic. You can still be warm and kind and considerate without constantly positioning yourself as wrong or less than. 

 28:40

In fact, here's what I have found. When you stop over apologizing, you actually become easier to work with and to be close to because people can take you at your word. They can respond to the actual content of your requests, of your insight, and they can trust that when you do apologize, it actually means something. 

 29:07

Look, this is really important work. These throwaway apologies, they're really problematic. And I'm not advocating for you to completely erase the word sorry from your vocabulary. That's not the goal. 

 29:21

The goal is to use it with intention, to save it for moments when it matters, when repair is needed. I want you to stop using it as a shield, a filler, or a way to make yourself smaller. You don't need to do that. 

 29:37

Your excellence, the way that you perform and show up for people, there's no need to apologize for that. Save your sorries for when they really matter. I just want you to notice how many times you say sorry. 

 29:51

Notice the ones that are necessary and the ones that are just habitual. Notice how it feels in your body right before or after you apologize. That anxiousness, that worry that you're taking up too much space, that resentment of like, why aren't other people also apologizing the way I constantly am? 

 30:09

That's what we want to get rid of. Practice the pause. Practice the alternative phrases. Practice allowing the discomfort, the awkward silence. Because learning to stop reflexive apologizing is one of the most powerful ways that people pleasers reclaim their power, their confidence, and their presence. 

 30:32

And you deserve to take up space without apologizing for it. That's it. I would love to hear what you discover as you do your apology audit. What are you apologizing for? Send me a DM. I love feedback. 

 30:46

Thanks for listening. I'll see you next week.

Episode 131 - End Emotional Outsourcing with Béa Albina

When you stop outsourcing your safety, belonging, and worth, you discover the freedom of authenticity–of knowing who you are and what you want. In this episode, I speak with Béa Albina about her new book, End Emotional Outsourcing: How to Overcome Your Codependent, Perfectionist, and People-Pleasing Habits. You’ll hear how this book not only outlines a clear path to end this painful way of living, but reframes emotional outsourcing in powerful new ways. Here’s what we cover:

• The definition of emotional outsourcing and how it shows up in our relationships, careers, and decision-making

• Why emotional outsourcing is a brilliant survival strategy, not a personality flaw

• The truth about authenticity and why it’s often the cost of people-pleasing and perfectionism

• How emotional outsourcing lives in the nervous system and why healing has to include the body

• Béa’s five-part process for rebuilding self-trust through small, “kitten-sized” steps

Beatriz (Béa) Victoria Albina, NP, MPH, SEP (she/her) is a UCSF-trained Family Nurse Practitioner, Somatic Experiencing Practitioner, Master Certified Somatic Life Coach, author of the forthcoming "End Emotional Outsourcing: a Guide to Overcoming Codependent, Perfectionist and People Pleasing Habits" ( Sept 30, Hachette Balance) and Breathwork Meditation Guide with a passion for helping humans socialized as women to reconnect with their bodies, regulate their nervous systems and rewire their minds, so they can break free from codependency, perfectionism and people pleasing and reclaim their joy.

Find Béa here:

https://beatrizalbina.com/book/

https://www.instagram.com/beatrizvictoriaalbinanp/

https://www.facebook.com/beatrizvictoriaalbinanp

https://beatrizalbina.com/podcast/

Find Sara here:

https://sarafisk.coach

https://pages.sarafisk.coach/difficultconversations

https://www.instagram.com/sarafiskcoach/

https://www.facebook.com/SaraFiskCoaching/

https://www.tiktok.com/@sarafiskcoach

https://www.youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333

What happens inside the free Stop People Pleasing Facebook Community? Our goal is to provide help and guidance on your journey to eliminate people pleasing and perfectionism from your life. We heal best in a safe community where we can grow and learn together and celebrate and encourage each other. This group is for posting questions about or experiences with material learned in The Ex-Good Girl podcast, Sara Fisk Coaching social media posts or the free webinars and trainings provided by Sara Fisk Coaching. See you inside!

Book a Free Consult

Transcript

Sara Bybee Fisk 00:57

Okay, this interview has been waiting to happen for a long time because I have been so privileged to walk part of this book journey with you. I know I wasn't there for all of the long hours of writing and sweating and crying. I was there for some of it though. And so it is such a privilege for me to interview about your book, baby. It's just so good and emotional outsourcing, how to overcome your codependent perfectionist and people pleasing habits. And it's such an important work because it outlines not just a clear path to end this really painful way of living, but it reframes it in such important ways. And the first way that I think it's so essential that we reframe this is that you talk about emotional outsourcing as a really brilliant survival strategy and not something that is wrong with people who are socialized as women. So I want to speak to that really directly. First, give me a definition of what emotional outsourcing is.

Beatriz Albina 02:06

Yeah, with great joy. So emotional outsourcing is when we chronically and habitually source our sense of the three most vital human needs, safety, belonging, and worth from everyone and everything outside of ourselves instead of from within at a great cost to ourselves. And we enact emotional outsourcing through the survival skills or habits of codependent, perfectionist, and people pleasing thinking.

Sara Bybee Fisk 02:38

Okay, let's get some really concrete examples.

Beatriz Albina 02:40

Yeah, absolutely. So let's start with like in relationships, we can really, really easily take on that role of the fixer. So we feel responsible for other people's emotions. We can't relax if someone's upset, if someone maybe doesn't like the movie, oh God, you don't like dinner, let me fix it. Let me fix it, let me fix it. We apologize constantly, even when we didn't do anything wrong and we're not even Canadian just to keep the peace because keeping the peace is the most important thing. We avoid conflict to that end at all costs, even if it means downplaying our needs, stuffing down our feelings, fibbing. We feel resentful, but we either don't express it and we just shove it down and just, you know, my feelings don't count as much as anyone else's, who am I to be upset? Or we let the resentment build and build and build and because we don't have any skills to like release the pressure valve, we all of the sudden explode on the people we love, like at them, or we scream and pound the steering wheel alone in the car. We take on a therapist role in all of our relationships with our partner, our parents, our friends, our kids, our employees. We are always listening, always supportive, always problem solving, but we don't get that same support in return, either because we are so over-functioning that we attract under-functioners into our lives, people who don't have the skills, capacity or desire to support us, or maybe they wanna help us, but what's our constant refrain? I'm fine. Oh, I'm fine. Yeah, don't worry, I'm fine, I'm fine. Oh, speaking of fixers, we are the only ones who see the true potential in that date, that partner, that person, you know, they don't want to be everything we want them to be, but give me a little time. I'll get them working out, eating better, communicating better, showing up. We take on humans as fixer-upper projects. We give and give and give and give until we are completely exhausted, and we believe that we have to take care of someone else in order for our lives to have value, and we also believe, you know, we have a deep, we often have a lot of really anxious attachment, and so if we're not taking care of someone, they're gonna leave, right? At work, we say yes to extra projects, unpaid labor and emotional caretaking. We're like the mom of the office, you know what I mean? We do not advocate for ourselves, for raises, fair treatment, credit for our work. I know you talk a lot about people-pleasing at work that's us to a T. Decision-making is really challenging because we don't value ourselves, we don't think that we're worthwhile, and so instead of just listening to our bodies and making an intuitive yes or no, we have to consult the entire peanut gallery and ask 473 people their opinion before we make a choice because we don't trust ourselves, and when we do say no,

Beatriz Albina 05:47

we're paralyzed by guilt. We're paralyzed by guilt even when we said no to something we absolutely have no desire to do.We are either under-responders or over-responders, so something bad happens and we're like, okay, we don't let ourselves have our feelings or something minor happens and we take everything so personally and make everything such a big deal, we are explosive at the smallest provocation, constantly and chronically offended by the whole world. I could go on for hours.

Sara Bybee Fisk 06:23

That is the most comprehensive list I have ever heard. You're right. We could go on and on because the ways that this shows up is as varied as the experience of people who are socialized as women. I think it's really interesting to come back to the core of what you said. It's this constant needing outside validation that you're safe, that you belong, and that you're worthy. We get it in all of these thousands and thousands of different ways. I'm particularly interested in how reframing it, not as a personality flaw, but as a brilliant strategic adaptation, how that helps people overcome it. First of all, tell me why it's not a personality flaw.

Beatriz Albina 07:16

because it's a strategy. It's not actually who you are at your core. It's a strategy that makes perfect sense when you understand the family systems, cultural norms, and the social structures and thus systems of oppression that we grew up in. So for so many of us, those systems, family, culture, society, religion, were and are shaped by the patriarchy, white settler colonialism, late stage capitalism. It's the air we breathe, the rules we were expected to follow, the invisible scripts that got handed to us that we were told over and over exactly how to be and who we needed to be in order to survive, to belong, to get love, or if we couldn't get those things, at least to be safe. So if you were raised and socialized as a girl in a patriarchal culture, you were rewarded for being a good girl. Agreeable, accommodating, polite. You were told to smile, to say yes. I can't help but go into that voice though, to make other, put other people's needs ahead of your own to keep everything copacetic and that your body isn't really yours. How good you are lives in how others perceive you, not in your own sense of integrity. Your integrity doesn't matter. So of course you learned to scan the room, to read the mood, to anticipate and preempt any possible conflict. And of course you made other people's feelings your job because of course you did. How else would you stay safe?

Sara Bybee Fisk 08:57

I think one of the things that is endlessly fascinating, you and I could go into a hundred different rooms with a thousand different women each and we could ask them what are the good girl rules? And every single one of them would know. And it was not ever something that was handed out with my third grade multiplication facts, right? But we all know. And I think what is so brilliant about reframing it as a survival strategy is we can actually appreciate and love those past versions of us that learned how to please because it got us where we are today. And we can want something different for ourselves now without having to shame or judge or criticize those past versions that really learn to please to get along and to get ahead and to survive.

Beatriz Albina 09:48

Because if you want to get into the C-suite, this is how, right? So it's not just folly, but it does hang your humanity out to dry. So that's the question, at what cost, right? And what's the payoff and what's leaving your truth behind?

Sara Bybee Fisk 10:13

Well, in that, when you define emotional outsourcing and you said, you know, we, we look for these things outside of us at great cost to us, I don't think we know what the cost is for a while, right? We're so busy getting into the C-suite or getting into the position of being rewarded and recognized, like for me, it wasn't a C-suite, it was being recognized as the best Mormon, the most religious, the most devout, right? And although the behavior looks the same, I'm acquiescing, I'm accommodating, I'm not making waves, I'm being agreeable, I'm doing what other people want. There is a moment, I think, increasingly as I aged that I began to become aware of that cost. And so let's talk about when you say at great cost to ourselves, what is the cost? The costs are all.

Beatriz Albina 11:10

The cost is, okay, so authenticity isn't just being yourself, it's knowing who you are in the depth of yourself. So it's the ability to stay rooted in your own wants, needs, preferences and values, even in the face of someone else's disappointment, someone's negation, someone else saying, no, that's not what a good girl wants, right? Even when your nervous system is quietly or loudly, quite frankly, begging you to abandon yourself to stay liked. Authenticity is staying rooted and honest with yourself and others, instead of being performative to avoid conflict or discomfort. And that's what we lose, right? We lose that ability to stay true to ourselves, to stay in our integrity, in our dignity, in our values. And instead, we go with, we go with the flow, even when that means laughing at someone's racist joke, or right, because you don't want to upset anybody, right? Well, certainly not. Certainly not. Right? It's just going along to get along, which when you add up those moments of what is conditioned self betrayal, at the end of the day, who do you have? Right? People who are attracted to and want a false you who want this, this facade, you who are you to you when you've spent your whole life putting you at the end of it all, right?

Sara Bybee Fisk 12:48

So it costs our genuine self connection and knowledge, who I am, what I want, what I really want to do with my time and energy and effort, you know, that kind of the life, my life source.

Beatriz Albina 13:03

And your sense of self-worth, right? Your own value is contingent on everyone else, right? So then the telling the truth of who you are can feel like a threat.

Sara Bybee Fisk 13:15

Right. And so if I can't show up as I really am and hang on to me, because I'm constantly kind of getting into the nervous system. At you know, the nervous system activation that tells me to just be what other people want me to be. It also has to have an effect on my ability to be in close connected relationships with other people. It's not just my relationship with me, right?

Beatriz Albina 13:43

Because you're never if you're not in the room, who are they relating to? Right? Right? Who are they? Who are they talking to? Who are they feeling with? We think that we're like protecting others when we're not vulnerable. Because then we're not burdening them. We're not complicating their life. We have the same feeling the same belief system when we try to save people from their emotions. Right? Like someone says, yeah, I'm really upset. Oh, they're there, it'll be all right. Right? And so we're not allowing others to have their vulnerable, truthful experience of life when we're not allowing ourselves to either.

Sara Bybee Fisk 14:21

And so then you're not connecting who you really are to who someone else really is. And I think that that creates the feeling of loneliness that a lot of us have in relationships where we are with other people and we are doing things for other people, but we don't feel really known or seen by them.

Beatriz Albina 14:42

Right. And what I want to pause here, because you and I are always talking about our no-blame, no-shame way of expressing this. The thing that's really keeping us from showing up and being vulnerable and sort of taking the mask off, as it were, is our nervous system and the window of capacity or tolerance in our nervous system to step outside the lines, right? To step outside what's prescribed for us and to possibly break a social norm or taboo, right? And by being our authentic self. And so I want to say it's the stories we grow up in, but it's also held in the body, right? If it's too scary to you as a mammal, then you're not going to do it, right?

Sara Bybee Fisk 15:29

I really love to spend some time kind of building out this idea because I think this is key. You say that emotional outsourcing lives in the nervous system, not just the mind, right? Because in our logical mind, I think we're adults and we understand, like you have, you know, we've talked about ruminating is not helpful. We should have a sense of who we are, self-esteem, and we should have some confidence and be able to go out into the world and, you know, advocate for ourselves, say what we want. Like we know that that is logical. We see other women doing it, but there just seems to be something in the way of that. Can you speak to how it lives in the nervous system?

Beatriz Albina 16:11

Yeah, so it keeps our bodies in this hypervigilance, so like really revved up. It keeps us believing everything in the world is a potential existential threat. That if we aren't living in this absolute perfection, everything's going to fall apart. And so it can be like a constant micro tension in your muscles, right, this like readiness to spring into action. We can find ourselves holding our breath bracing for emotional, physical, energetic hit our own heart rate. And our vagal tone can be attuning to others. Hyper attune instead of tuning inward. And our stress chemistry can be a hot mess. So like elevated cortisol spikes and things like adrenaline when you even think about disappointing someone else. Okay, that's those are cool nerd words. What does that mean? It means that your entire mind, body and spirit is attuned fully outward towards other people, instead of tuned inward. So that you can say things like, no, I don't actually want to be the room mom this year. Thanks for the offer. No, you know, I actually don't want to go out to dinner with them. They're really negative. And it's just kind of exhausting for me. Thanks for the invite, though. Right on and on those no thank yous, those statements, those preferences, those desires that are opposite to our training, get buried, get subsumed are unfindable in a body and a nervous system that is hyper attuned to others. Right? Because you start to say no, are people going to be stay smiling? Probably not. Right. And when your body equates, someone's not smiling and doom, you're going to do everything you can to keep the smiles around, right?

Sara Bybee Fisk 18:14

You are because it's just too uncomfortable to not do that.

Beatriz Albina 18:20

And we grow up discomfort equals doom. Discomfort equals doom. Somebody's sad, right? My dad is sad. Well, I gotta be the jester. I gotta go make jokes, right? Mom is upset. She's storming around the kitchen again. Let me go show her my A plus. Let me tell her I made JV. Let me go and manage other people's feelings that are too uncomfortable because the line often for us between discomfort and danger, very blurry, right? And so someone being uncomfortable is an existential threat. So we don't allow it. Why would we allow it? We're not fools, Sara, right? We're just not fools.

Sara Bybee Fisk 19:03

So if someone is recognizing themselves in what you are talking about, right, that they have a very low nervous system capacity to say no, to choose what they want for themselves, to disappoint someone else, even when it's what serves them the best, where do they need to start working on that?

Beatriz Albina 19:29

Mmm, so they need to be brave. B, body first. R, recognize the outsourcing. A, ask what do I want? V, voice a small act of self-loyalty. And E, encourage yourself. Shall I go through my five-part process?

Sara Bybee Fisk 19:44

I would love you to go through your five part process. I will love you forever.

Beatriz Albina 19:49

Okay, so we start body first. Oh, and can I also put this out there? This is really important. This is not you alone in a silo work. No one is born codependent. I eschew the labels. They're bologna pants. These are survival skills. You were not born codependent. You were not born a people pleasing perfectionist. Forget about it. We learned these survival skills to survive in relationship. We heal in relationship. Right? So the fact Sara that I have you and let's give Judith Gatton some big love, right? The three of us can call each other for like really deep talk. But also like, remember last week when I sent you a video that I was like, Hi, I'm a fully grown Leo. And does this shirt look cute on me? Right? Like, we need each other. We need to lean on each other and let our nervous systems take comfort with each other. This is it is white Western wellness baloney to tell you that this is individual work. We heal in community beginning, middle and end. Because science. Right? Love it. I love it. Right. I just wanted to say that really clearly. This is why people we need coaches, we need communities, we need sisterhoods and sibling hoods. Great. So let's go back to being brave. We start with the body. So we've been talking about how when we are living in emotional outsourcing, we are not embodied. We are not present in our bodies. Being embodies is lived experience of inhabiting your body, not just being aware that like, I have a body, it takes me to work, it drives a car, it makes dinner. But it's really about perceiving feeling and acting from within your body as your primary home. So not just living from the neck up, where your socialization and conditioning live, but living in your body. And so embodiment is the integration of sensory, motor, emotional and cognitive processes into a cohesive, felt sense of self. Yeah? Yeah. Great. So the first step is of being brave is that work, right is coming into your body, which for folks who have a history of their body being the site of trauma, that can be challenging. And so we go slowly, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny steps towards becoming ever more present in our bodies. One of the simplest, easiest nervous system skills and tools that I can teach you is orienting. Everyone can do it. And you can do it in a crowded boardroom, you can do it while driving your car, you can do it one-on-one. And it's just this, you simply look around and let your mind body, visual cortex nervous system take in your environment. And I know that sounds way too simple to actually do anything. But think about like, you show up at a new job, and they're like, all right, here's the office. Good luck. It's disorienting. It's confusing. It's, you struggled to know how to do anything because you're not oriented. Whereas you show up at the office, they say here's Pam's desk, here's Jim's desk, the annex is back there. And they show you around the office, your nervous system can rest, right?

Beatriz Albina 23:13

Because you're oriented in time and space. And so one of the best ways to start coming into embodiment, and thus towards more authenticity, so you can step out of emotional outsourcing, is by finding our bodies in time and space. I like to do that by combining looking around and feeling my feet. So I always say find your feet, find the ground, connect with the earth. It's August, which is the month that in South America, we celebrate Pachamama or earth mother. So let's find the earth, right? Connect in with the ground, let your feet connect you with source, however you experience that. And let your body begin to be your GPS. Because your body tells you the truth about what's right, what's wrong, and what's meh, right? Even when your mind is doing mental gymnastics to people, please, so come into your body. Next, if you're in the midst of emotional outsourcing, the next thing we need to do is attune ourselves to our own habitual ways of outsourcing. So notice yourself in the act gently. What I like to do is have my clients sit down, orient their nervous system, find their feet, and then write out the ways they know they habitually outsource. Like, what's your classic go-to? Mine was to think my needs don't matter. Right? Like, that was a classic for me. For someone else, it might be watching people's face as you say something to see if it's okay. Right? Is it okay? I asked for time off. Like, I'm sort of like monitoring you. You might know that you have the habit of outsourcing a decision because you don't want to disappoint others. Oh, I used to do this one, Sara, where I like was worried about an outcome. And so I would kind of, in a way, manipulate almost someone else to make the decision for me because then if it didn't turn out well, I could blame them. I had no idea I was doing it till I did. Right? So make a list, come to understand your own habitual outsourcing, and then make it a fun game. Like, where's Waldo? You know, where's Waldo? Yes. Right? Like, Oh, I did the thing. Now, this goes towards my general philosophy, which I know you share, which is, let's make this light. Let's make this fun. This is some of the most important work of your entire human existence. But it doesn't need to be so serious. You know what I mean? Yes. Right? Like the job where we laugh, I've ever had where we laughed the most was when I was a hospice nurse. Everyone's circling the grave. Let's laugh about it. Right? Like, let's joke about it. Like my best friend has stage one of my best friends, one of my best friends, but another best friend has stage four terminal cancer. And all the time, she'll be like, Oh, no, I hold on, I need to move my phone. It's too close to my body. It's going to keep it light.

Sara Bybee Fisk 26:10

Yeah, there is such an air of seriousness about all the things we have to change about it.

Beatriz Albina 26:15

Take a breath. Yeah. So then, yes, shall I continue?

Sara Bybee Fisk 26:22

Yes, we've covered B.

Beatriz Albina 26:23

R, recognize that as A, ask, what do I want? So not what they want, not what would keep you out of trouble, not what they will approve of, but do you actually want, need, feel, or prefer right now? Even if it's foggy, even if the answer is I don't know, this is where we start. So what we're doing here is shifting our neuroplasticity, we're shifting the neural grooves in our brain that habitually, heuristically go to, I don't know, and that's a problem. We start by shifting towards, I don't know, and what matters is that I asked myself. So that's the new thought we're programming. So constantly asking yourself, when someone's like, do you want to go out to dinner? And you ask yourself, do I? And if your brain goes, I don't know, you go, oh, awesome, but I asked myself. Even if the thing coming out of your mind is, I don't know, help, you asked. And that's our goal. The goal is to self-ask and to really to start to pump yourself up in your mind, right? Because we don't matter to ourselves. So that's what matters, not the answer. Next is to voice small acts of self-loyalty. And here we don't just keep it small. We keep it kitten step sized. So do you know my funny thing I say, Sara, of kitten steps?

Sara Bybee Fisk 27:48

Do you know this? It's a good one. So go ahead and tell.

Beatriz Albina 27:50

Okay, great. So, I think that folks in the self-help world telling folks to take baby steps is malpractice. I think it's ridiculous. A baby's foot is like what, two and a half, three inches? That's bananas. That is just wild and ridiculous. That is too big a step. You're going to fall over right on your sweet little snout. No, thank you. So, I implore my clients and you listening to take newborn kitten-sized steps. Like newborn, like this kitten's like hours old, little teeny tiny steps. Because when we take small steps, we're so much more likely to succeed.Right? And it really reduces the resistance within the nervous system to taking the first step. So, think of the situations that we listed above where you are most likely to outsource and write out what the tiniest thing you could do to reverse that. So, if your habit is to say yes to every project from people pleasing, maybe your kitten step is, let me get back to you. Right? So, instead of that automatic, yeah, maybe you're going to say yes in an hour, but it's irrelevant. Right? What we're programming into your brain is the pause and choosing self. Right? Maybe you never order what you want in case someone at the table wants to share. Right? So, maybe, maybe you order without asking others what they want. Right? It doesn't really matter. The work here is we, you are starting to become your own safe place. So, taking these small acts of self-loyalty, begin to shift it. And then finally encourage yourself like you would a best friend, like Sara and I encourage ourselves. Right? Celebrate each and every kitten step in your own mind if not out loud. Even better though if it's with a friend. Right? Because we heal outsourcing in community. So, I caught it. Yay. I paused. I asked myself something new. Right? This work is slow because it's deep and it's tiny steps because it's changing our entire lifetime of coding in our minds, in our bodies, in our spirits. So, that's how we be brave, Sara.

Sara Bybee Fisk 30:08

What does life start to look like as you are being brave and walking yourself with your community, with your sisterhood and the relationships that you're building, what does life start to look like on the other side of emotional outsourcing?

Beatriz Albina 30:29

You know what, the first place my brain went, and this is like the most Leo on Leo conversation. This is the example I love to use. I know my hair looks good anytime, any day, but I love, I love to receive praise now, to receive validation, to be told my hair looks good because I don't count on it as life's blood. I don't need it, but it's just icing, right? Okay, so here's one of my favorite metaphors, chapter 10, be the cake. When you are no longer emotionally outsourcing, you trust that you are the most delicious, incredible chocolate cake or carrot cake or whatever you want. And you let life be the icing, meaning it's something great to have, to have praise for someone to love up on you, right? To have that additional validation from the world, but you don't need it because you've got your own back. And so it means doing the things you want to, the things you dream of, not with no regard for anyone else, but with regard for yourself at the top and others right behind it, right? So it's me first, you second, us together with love. It's us together, right? It's always thinking about your values as the center of your life. It's living with integrity, it's living with dignity. And when someone says, hey, I don't like that shirt on you, you can say, okay, but like, that's it. Okay. Right? Because they get to have their opinion. It's not your problem. It's not your gospel. It's not yours to fix. It's not yours to even necessarily absorb, right? Oh, I don't like that you're what do. Okay. And you can allow others to have their own experience of life. You don't need to manage it. You don't need to fix it. If someone's upset or uncomfortable or unhappy, you can let them have those feelings and you can meet them with love. Oh, I hear you. You're really upset that I'm not going to change my entire life to meet your preferences.

Sara Bybee Fisk 32:42

It also has to just free people up to find places where nobody gives a fuck which shirt they're wearing, right? Well, there's also that, yes. They get to show up and be loved and seen and appreciated and fully known, which I think is, that's the best part of being a human, right, is when you get to be loved and seen and truly known.

Beatriz Albina 33:09

Yeah. And the noise in your head gets quieter. That constant like ticker tape of like, did I say the right thing? Should I text them? Did I upset them? It starts to lose volume. Your anterior cingulate cortex, the brain region that's been like an overdrive scanning for interpersonal threat stops firing quite so hot, right? And you get more fluidity in your nervous system. And so you can like notice social tension without your heart rate spiking, without your gut, like nodding up, you can just notice, oh, it looks like they're not loving the party we planned. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I also noticed, let me just talk to some things in my own life, I don't fear being wrong when it's appropriate. Okay, because this is what people push back, but like someone could get hurt. If I'm prescribing insulin, I'm going to check it 27 times. When I put an IUD in, I am appropriately nervous. I should be. I don't care how many I put in. I intend to keep that edge of nervousness. When I tell someone my feelings, how they receive it's on them, and that's great information about them. It's not about me anymore, right? And to your point, I now trust my intuition and my body and my discernment that I pick people to tell about my feelings who are going to meet me the way you do, right? Who are going to meet me with love and care.Who are going to either say like, oh, sweet pea, I hear you that you're upset, or going to do what you do, which is you say, I hear you that you're upset. Would you like some coaching on that? Right? So I believe in my consent. I think it's vital and important, and I believe the people I trust with my heart should ask for it. And so I've called those people in. I remember when I called our friend Cara and I told her I was getting divorced. She was the first person who responded. So how do you feel about that? And I remember my shoulders just going, I feel so happy, joyful and relieved. Like this painful multi-year saga has finally come to an end, then like, I'm going to reclaim my life. I'm already doing it. And she was like, oh, okay, cool, then can I take you out to celebrate? She was the first person who didn't say, oh, honey, I'm so sorry, right? And so you call those people in and you let people know this is how I live. My opinion around my life is what matters. And when I want yours, I will ask for it. And I do. I ask your opinion all the time, but not because I distrust mine, but because I value yours. And that's the shift. That's the move towards interdependence. Your opinion matters. Give me. But if at the end of the day, then I'm going to go with me. And I'm never going to blame you for giving me your opinion because I don't play that game anymore.

Sara Bybee Fisk 36:01

There's such a relief in being able to live with that kind of having your own back and that kind of the spaciousness that other people get to have their response that doesn't mean anything about me. It's good information for me to have. And I think a lot of people listening might think, gosh, that sounds amazing, but they are still feeling exhausted. They're still feeling stuck. Like they have tried things before that have not worked to get them that kind of self-connection and connection with the other people in their lives that they really want. So what would you want those people to know who want what you have been describing, but don't know what to do next? Values work.

Beatriz Albina 36:48

What do you actually value? This comes to mind because Friday I was coaching a group of women and there was so much talk about their exhaustion, and I had everyone stop and write out what are the things that are exhausting you, keeping this house spotless, keeping the car clean, keeping my kids clothes organized, keeping my whatever. Why are we attempting to continue to live up to these exigent standards? Right, back in the day, we had villages for this. And so now in this capitalist hellscape, we each have our own house and our own lawnmower and our own laundry and our own cooking and our own cleaning that is generally on one side of shoulders and that's moms, and you have to do all of the everything. And so the challenge I gave my people was to spend the weekend not cleaning and taking pictures of their dust bunnies as they grow, and we're having a dust bunny challenge. Not because I want us to be gross, but because we are working ourselves to the bone to keep up with the Joneses. Right, so that like what if a neighbor happens to drop by, they'll see that your countertops clean and that's the most important thing about you?Like what really matters to you? Is it spending time with your kids or is it keeping their whites white? Like who cares if their sneakers are dirty? Right, versus like y'all played board games last night and had so much fun laughing. Like were the snacks impeccable? Nobody cares. I think that's when I get all former hospice nursing on it, right? At the end of the day, what matters to you? When you're on your deathbed and someone like me is giving you morphine, what do you want to think about? What do you want to have allowed to matter to you? And I think a lot of our exhaustion, it comes from these ridiculous external standards. And the sooner we can release them and step into our own values, everything shifts. Like do you need to take on more work so you can buy more designer goods that are going to end up in the landfill as soon as that micro trend is over? Do you need to raise kids who are so consumeristically focused that they need the like boo boo boos, whatever. I'm not breaking copyright by saying it wrong. And like do you need to be feeding into that? Or do you need to simplify your life because your values are friendship, community, being of service, honesty. Like what really matters to you? And when you focus on that, I think a lot of the exhaustion falls away because you're not people-proving. We talk a lot about people pleasing, but where are you people proving? Are you Romy and Michelle trying to look amazing at your high school reunion? Like what are you doing? It really comes down to like what are you building a life on?

Sara Bybee Fisk 39:55

I think that's one of the gifts of midlife, actually, for many women, right? You just, you've been doing it for so long, you realize it just doesn't have the currency that you thought it did. It hasn't been the return on the investment. And so I think a lot of that just comes naturally as you age, but if you're listening to this podcast and you don't want to wait for midlife to kind of point these things out for you, what you need to do is buy Bea's book and emotional outsourcing so that you can get a jump on how to arrange your life so that your time and energy and effort is actually going toward creating the connection, the safety, and the self worth that is going to see you through the decades of living as a human and not constantly be requiring you to go get more from other people because you control it, right? It's a source of value, safety, and connection that comes from inside of you that you control and is not controlled by other people outside of you.

Beatriz Albina 41:05

Exactly. Bring it on home, baby. Bring it on home. And then find the people you can be weird around.

Sara Bybee Fisk 41:10

That's right. Yeah. Creating the- Be weirder.

Beatriz Albina 41:15

Be weirder. Come on. Just no one's out here actually that normal. I know you've got it in you.

Sara Bybee Fisk 41:22

We all do. We all do. So thank you so much for writing this book, for being a voice for the authentic, confident, really free lives that I think women want. We're never taught how to get. And that if we want to kind of go globally, which I know you and I think very similarly along these lines, the world right now needs women who are connected to themselves and to their communities who are shaping different discussions because it's kind of a shit show out there right now. And I think when we have women who can advocate for what they want and what they need, what we see is women who advocate for peace, community for everybody getting fed, for everybody being safe and having as much of their needs met as possible, which we could use that right now. We sure can. We sure can. Thank you for adding to the resources that are available to achieve that. Is there anything that you didn't get to say about your book, about the process of writing it, really about anything that you just want to end with if you back up here?

Beatriz Albina 42:38

So, I want to name the importance of somatics and the nervous system, which like we had so much to talk about, we didn't get to there. If you are like so many people, you're looking at Instagram and you're seeing somatics thrown around, whether it's like somatic accounting, somatic workout, somatic whatever, and you just don't get it. I describe it in the book, I break it down in the book, I make it accessible and tangible and applicable to your own life, so don't stress about it. It's in the book, so yeah, but it's really important that we talk about the role of the body in all of this, so yeah, so there it is.

Sara Bybee Fisk 43:19

For more from Bea, where can they find you? I know buying the book is essential. Where else can they learn more about you and what you do?

Beatriz Albina 43:28

Yeah, you can pre-order at béathrizealbina.com slash book, and that's got all the popular booksellers are on there for pre-order. Quick note, because people don't realize this, if you want this book to be a free resource at libraries, it's vital if you've got the financial capacity to pre-order that you pre-order. So the more pre-orders there are, the more copies get published, which means it's more likely to end up in libraries. Isn't that wild? It's bananas to me. I didn't know that a month ago. You can listen to my podcast, Feminist Wellness, wherever you get your shows, and you can follow me on the Gram. I give good Gram at my whole name, béathrice, Victoria, Albina, and P.

Sara Bybee Fisk 44:10

All of those links will be in the show notes because I want everyone to be able to benefit from this. Thank you.

Beatriz Albina 44:16

I love you. Thank you.

Sara Bybee Fisk

I love you too. Talk to you soon.