Episode 125 - What I'm Learning About Joy, Rest, and Pleasure
In the self-help space, it’s easy to assume someone else has it all together. The truth is, nobody does. While I have some answers—and I certainly can provide help to stop people-pleasing—I’m still learning, too. Today, I’m sharing recent changes and insights from my own life to offer an honest look at the messy, yet beautiful, journey of healing—and to remind you that joy, grief, and desire can all coexist. Here’s what I cover:
How religious scriptures shaped my beliefs about worthiness–and how I’ve grown into a deeper sense of connection
Why rest, joy, pleasure, and loving your f*cking life are powerful acts of resistance
Why I stepped away from social media and how it has allowed me to show up more fully in my life
How retreating to my love of fiction provided me with a soul-deep relief
How I have become more fully present in my body and my power through pleasure
How I learned that “Am I enough?” was never the right question to ask
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Transcript
00:58
I'm recording this just a couple days after I turned 52, which just sounds bonkers to say. I don't know, I do feel like I'm in my early 40s. But I joked with my daughter, I'm just going to tell people I just turned 40 12.
01:15
Because 52 just sounds wild. But I wanted to take a minute and reflect for a couple of reasons. Number one, in this self help space that we are in together, it is really easy to look at someone else and think that they have all the answers, have it all together.
01:36
And although I do have some answers, and I definitely can help you with your people pleasing. I am still growing and learning and wanted to just share not only some of the changes that I've seen in my own life, but the work that I am still doing, because I think what I am most interested in is a community of women who are healing and sharing together and what that means is we are sharing and we are being vulnerable and letting the people in our community kind of into some of the intimate details of our lives and so I want to do that with you.
02:18
One of the things that I noticed as I was just reflecting this morning is that although I am not a practicing member of the LDS or Mormon faith anymore, I in some ways will always be Mormon. I think it's just you know in there so deeply and I used to really obsess about two types of scriptures.
02:42
The Mormons have two additional books of scripture in addition to the Bible. It is believed that Joseph Smith who founded Mormonism also received a book of scripture called the Book of Mormon and another book called the Doctrine and Covenants.
02:59
there are scriptures throughout both of those books that really talk about being tested and having to endure to the end and that you had to try very, very, very hard every single day in order to qualify for salvation, quote unquote, you know, heaven, however you think about that.
03:20
And so I used to really think about those scriptures a lot. I would be filled with sometimes dread and anxiety, thinking, for example, there's a scripture in the Book of Mormon that says, you are saved by faith after all you can do.
03:37
And I just always used to think like, what is all I can do? Like, of course, I can always do more. Of course, there's other ways that I'm not being, you know, perfect or good. I just did an interview a couple days ago with Michael Ann Gardner, that's going to come out at some point around this episode.
03:54
And she was also a member of the same religious group. And we talked about how we, we couldn't win at a lot of things, but we could win at purity, we could win at keeping the rules. And so I think for some of us in organized religion, that's, that's the way that we are fawning for God, right?
04:18
We are fawning F-A-W-N or trying to please God all the time. And then it was just confirmed to me when I would read these scriptures that I was not enough, that I had not done enough, that I was not giving enough, loving enough, self-sacrificing enough.
04:35
And it created a constant kind of hum of anxiety for me that I even experienced after not going to church anymore. And that is when I realized that it was also connected to not just religion, but patriarchy and growing up in a, you know, Western patriarchal society where there There is this kind of constant drumbeat for a lot of us in our minds of like more, more, more.
05:06
I used to envision it and talk about it. If you can imagine, there's a donkey who's pulling a cart and in the cart, there are a bunch of things that need to be done, people that need to be served, things about me that need to be fixed, right?
05:22
And then there's a driver sitting in the seat of the cart, driving the donkey forward, trying to make progress on all of these things that are in the cart. I was both the driver and the donkey. And so that constant like whipping the donkey more, more, just do a little bit more, try a little bit harder, be a little better, give a little more, serve a little more, be a little more was really the kind of the constant undercurrent of my life with all of these scriptures that I would read that just told me basically you have to try really, really hard every single day. And if you disappoint God, it has eternal consequences. And so I talk about it now, and it's kind of like a little bit of an out of body experience. But in that time, I was drawn to that type of like exact obedience.
06:28
That's another that was just constantly out of my reach. And it just felt like that's what life was supposed to be like this constant striving. And one of the things that I recognize is that I just never think about that anymore.
06:45
I never worry about my worthiness. I never worry if I'm good enough. I never it's like not even the right question. It was rigged from the beginning. That was never the right question to be asking the right question to be asking is who am I?
07:01
And what do I want? What fills me with joy? What inspires me to be the kind of person that I think is important to be in the world? And how do I find and do those things? How do I become more me? How do I connect more deeply to who I am?
07:20
And what, you know, lights me up from the inside? And so that is I'm so grateful for that growth. It's come through coaching, it's come through lots of attention to the parts of me that were carrying the shame and the fear of rejection and the worthiness, the worthiness issue or feeling lack of worthiness, but it is resulted in a real sense of deep connection.
07:53
And I never knew that I was disconnected from myself. that whole time. But now that I am so deeply connected and can show up for myself so completely, oh man, I just look back at that young girl, young woman who was just so desperate to feel like she was enough with so much compassion.
08:19
And I can have such gratitude now that that's just not, it's no longer an issue. Now what I feel really compelled by is those questions. Who am I? What do I want? What lights me up? What fills me with joy and pleasure and happiness and knowledge and connection with others?
08:42
I'm still obsessed with the second type of scripture that I was really drawn to. And those were scriptures about justice that inspired hope. there were scriptures that spoke about a world that God had created that had enough.
09:02
One of the scriptures I'm thinking of right now it says, for the world is full and there is enough and to spare. And how deeply I longed to live in a world that reflected what I thought God had already created for us.
09:22
And to be transparent, I still believe in Jesus. I believe in what he did and said when he was alive. I think it was a real thing that happened. I don't know that I believe in all of it. I haven't pulled it apart really completely, but I still believe that the world we live in has enough and that there is enough to spare.
09:45
And there were scriptures that talked about how the poor and needy should be cared for. And they made me deeply long for that world for me and for others. And so one of the ways in which I have learned to take care of myself this year is by balancing that desire for a world where we all live in peace with the reality of the world that we live in a little bit better.
10:17
It used to be almost overwhelming to me to feel the grief of the world. I didn't understand why I got to lay down in a warm bed with enough food and enough love. And the world I saw around me for so many other people was so full of lack and terror and violence and no way to really fix that.
10:47
It filled me with a helplessness and a hopelessness that really was this kind of pit of despair that I fell in every single day, especially on social media. And so in January, I made the choice to leave social media, not completely.
11:05
I still post some things for work, but I deleted it from my phone, really out of self preservation because it just pulled me into this pit every single day from the constant exposure. And I just want to remind all of us, our brains and our nervous systems are not made to take the constant punches of all that is going on in the world around us.
11:35
Doesn't matter which country you live in. It doesn't matter if you're in the United States where we are undergoing some significant threats to democracy and our way of life. Or if you're in a different country where you're facing different threats in your own family and worldwide. We are all living with an unprecedented amount of information and it just felt like I couldn't show up for the people that I was responsible for. And I felt a tremendous sense of guilt.
12:09
It felt in the beginning like I was turning away or being a bad person or putting my head in the sand and I was hiding behind my privilege. But what I soon came to realize is that the relief I felt from being able to not face that onslaught every day allowed me to show up for the people in my life that were depending on me, my family, my clients, my friends, myself, and to regroup.
12:38
I don't know that I'd ever given myself that kind of rest and I really did it in two ways by going off social media and I retreated into fiction. I retreated into audiobooks. I think I've read or listened to something like 48 audiobooks since the beginning of the year and that's an incredible number because it's just a lot which I've loved on my walks when I'm working out, when I'm driving in the car.
13:04
But I'd always read self-help, right? There was always something about me that needed attention, that needed to be fixed, some kind of new thing I should learn to better help my clients. And so just giving myself, I loved fiction and fantasy when I was growing up.
13:20
I loved it. And to be able to retreat back into what felt like those old friends, I cannot tell you the soul deep relief that it provided for me. And sometimes that retreat is imperative. Stepping back allowed me to show up for the people in my real life that I am able to serve and help and to be resourceful about how I could help people who were not in my immediate sphere, how I could donate, how I could have conversations, how I could show up for the worldwide systemic injustice that we are still facing in so many regions of the world, because that still deeply, deeply matters to me.
14:11
The process is not over, right? I have downloaded one social media app on my phone again, and I'm just kind of testing it out. I'm still learning how to hold the incredible complexity of the world we live in today and stay functional.
14:26
I'm still learning how to honor what my soul needs and what the world needs and how I want to show up for those issues because they still deeply matter to me. I still deeply long to live in a world where everyone has what they need.
14:46
A couple weeks ago, a poet that I dearly love and have followed passed away from ovarian cancer. Their name was Andrea Gibson. And her poetry, it's like I found a language for so many of the experiences and feelings that I couldn't yet put into words.
15:07
And that is such, that's just such an incredible gift when that happens. And when they passed away, one of the last things that they said was, I fucking loved my life. And I have thought about that phrase every day since I read it in the announcement of their passing.
15:26
And that's how I feel about my life. And I learned so much of that by watching Andrea with cancer and chemo treatments, and being a queer artist, just funnel joy into their own life, even with everything that was hard.
15:48
And that was a really significant lesson. Because with everything that is going on in the world, to have joy is resistance, to rest is resistance, to gather those around you that you love, and to have happiness and pleasure, and a good time is resistance.
16:10
And it fills our lives, it fills our cups in such an important way. And I've learned that the guilt that I used to feel around that was because I just didn't understand that it's another way to show up in resistance to the people who want to make life less just, and less fair, who want to funnel more resources to those who already have plenty and away from those who need.
16:41
And that has been a really big and beautiful lesson. And I hope to just carry that line. I fucking love my life with me as the litmus test. Not that it should always be happy and good. Not that bad things should never happen.
16:58
But what I learned from Andrea is that even when bad things are happening, even when painful things are happening, even when grief is present, joy is always there. Happiness, pleasure, rest, renewal, presence can also still be there.
17:19
And then lastly, I want to share that one of the ways that I am really becoming more fully present in my body and in my power and in my pleasure is through sexual pleasure. It has been such a taboo for so many years for women in general, for religious women in particular, and I think for Mormons in really particular particular Mormon women to talk about wanting sexual pleasure. And it's been such a journey for me. If you go back to the beginning episodes that I did, I did an interview with Danielle Savory, who is a friend and fellow coach.
18:00
And she coaches women around sexual intimacy. And what she told me during that interview, I understood the word she was saying, she said, a woman who can speak up for what she wants in sexual intimacy has access to a kind of power that is rare.
18:19
That is not like regular power. That's a bad paraphrase. You'll have to go back and listen to that episode because it's so good. I understood the words she said, but I didn't really understand them. And as I have explored this new layer of embodiment of really being in my body during sex, asking for what I want, asking is so it was so hard in the beginning, think about how difficult it is for some of us who are, you know, really working with the discomfort of having and sharing our own needs to even ask the waiter to change out some aspect of our meal, like this is what we don't even know, right. And I find that some of us have a really hard time asking people we don't know for things, but we can ask people we do know very easily.
19:12
And sometimes it's reversed. I had no problem asking, you know, strangers and people that I had no connection to, to meet a need or to help me with something. And it was in my relationship with my husband that I found it the hardest to let him see this part of me that wanted pleasure that wanted to show up that wanted specific things, especially with all of the Mormon programming, and the patriarchal programming about how women should not be like there's a very particular kind of woman who is sexual and she's a slut.
19:46
She's a whore. And how these ideas that we are supposed to still be kind of pure and virtuous, but also sexy, like pulling that apart has been one of the greatest journeys of my life. And going from this idea of sex as like holy and pure and clean to what sex really is, it's, it can be awkward, it can be messy, it can be dirty, it can be uncomfortable, really has been just so incredible for me.
20:28
I talk about this a little bit in another episode I did with Danielle about dying for sex, the Hulu show that meant so much to me because it is about a woman. learning to say what she wants. Yes, it's about sex, but it's also not.
20:44
Now, she's doing all of this learning with a deadline because in the Hulu show, she knows she's dying. And I don't know that I'm dying right now of anything specifically, but I do know we are all dying.
21:01
And so when I think about the timeline that I'm on, it doesn't create pressure, it creates opportunity. And I want to share that for a couple of reasons. Number one, I just want to take the taboo off this whole sexual pleasure subject for women.
21:19
I want to be able to talk about it openly and honestly. And I want to share it in case. And the thing is, I know it's not a case. I know that there are women listening to this. And they hear other women, maybe me in this episode talking about going after sexual pleasure.
21:35
And something inside of you is like, I want that. I think I want that. I want to be able to be admired. I want to be able to be desired. And I want to have desire for a partner, a lover. And I just want to share that it's beautiful.
21:52
And it's just as empowering as Danielle said. And I look forward to what this next phase looks like for me with my husband. I'm not asking am I enough anymore because that was never the right question.
22:06
And it's not the right question for you either. I have found ways to show up for myself, to hold grief and joy at the same time, to step back when I need to, and to claim my body and pleasure in a new way.
22:20
And so I would just invite you to think about where are you still holding on to something, ideas or beliefs from old systems, parents who told you things that still hurt to think about a teacher, a system, maybe religious.
22:37
And where can you step back? and retreat and rest? And where can you claim more joy and pleasure? If anything that I've talked about resonates with you, if any of the themes I've touched on are also showing up in your own life, I would love a DM as a birthday present.
22:58
I love to connect with people who listen to the podcast. And especially when we're connecting about similar themes, it's always so much fun. So you can always email me sara@sarafisk.coach. And I would just love to hear about your experience as well.
23:12
Last thing I want to let you know is that Stop People Pleasing is still open because it is a fantastic program when we have lots of different experiences and women. And I'm still waiting for a few of you to join who I know are out there listening.
23:27
It's an incredible opportunity to do this work in a wonderful, amazing group of women. And so if you were curious at all about what your life could look like without people pleasing, without codependency, without worrying if you are enough, without worrying if you are too much, I would love to talk to you.
23:47
Use the link in the show notes or in any of my social media platforms to set up a time to talk. And I'll talk to you soon.
