Episode 133 - What Avoiding Conflict Really Costs You
Conflict is one of the most paradoxical things I’ve encountered—in my own life and in the lives of my clients. For those of us who have been shaped by good girl conditioning, conflict most often feels like danger and disconnection. But when it happens within a container of safety and self-connection, it becomes a doorway to vulnerability, intimacy, and power. In this episode, I explore why we avoid conflict and share personal stories that demonstrate the freedom you can find when you say what needs to be said. Here’s what I cover:
How the emotional burden of unspoken words lives in the body
How cultural and gender conditioning teach people socialized as women to stay silent
Two real-life examples of how I apply what I teach about conflict and communication
Why self-love and compassion are essential for knowing when and how to speak up
How practicing the skills to have hard conversations leads to freedom and connection
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Transcript
00:58
One of the most paradoxical things that I have dealt with in my own life and with clients, both in personal, private coaching and my group coaching program, is conflict.
01:12
Conflict is something that almost universally by myself and by good girls, we just, we don't want it. We don't want to run into it. We don't want to have anything to do with it. It feels bad. It feels dangerous.
01:25
It feels scary. We don't feel like we're good at it. We're worried about, you know, being too emotional and not being able to control our emotions in conflict. We're worried about not knowing what to say, feeling silly or stupid or dumb.
01:39
We're worried about potential danger, right? Not feeling safe. And all of those things are true. And when conflict is done well with people who are either willing to do conflict well with you or with whom situations of safety are present, conflict is actually the door to freedom, to vulnerability, to connection, to intimacy, and to power.
02:09
And it is such a paradox because it feels like disconnection. It feels like danger, but it's actually the pathway to deeper connection. It is transformational. It's just such a mind fuck because this thing that feels so potentially overwhelming, so potentially scary in certain circumstances can actually be so healing.
02:40
And I want to tell you about a couple of incidents of conflict that I have had where I've leaned in in two different ways. And actually, I'm going to do a two-part series. I'm going to talk about two conversations this episode and two conversations next episode that really have contributed in huge ways to me seeing myself differently and being able to show up in the world as a person who can have conflict in ways that feels healthy and that gets me more of what I want and need.
03:16
And at the very least, allows me to say what needs to be said. So many of the women that I talk with, that DM me, that I meet through coaching, myself included, we carry the burden of all of these things that we are not able to say.
03:33
And when something is not said, the effect of that, the emotion, the burden, the load of that lives in the body. And so it is no wonder that we feel this press of resentment or anxiety or grief or rage or sadness or like we're not heard and we're not seen.
03:54
A lot of that is because there are conversations that we don't know how to say. There are words, there are opinions, there are needs, there are wants that we have silenced and it creates a real weight.
04:10
The emotions accumulate and then those feelings like take up residency in our bodies and they create distance from ourselves and from others. And another part of the paradox is that we're staying silent to avoid discomfort, but that silence itself becomes another layer of discomfort that we just live with.
04:34
I can't tell a story without giving it some framing, right? Because there is a really good reason. There are lots of really good reasons why cultural and gender conditioning teaches us to stay silent.
04:48
It's the good girl programming. Don't make waves. Keep the peace. Be nice. Don't be too much, too loud, too needy, too dramatic, too emotional, too opinionated. And the fact that we have been given millions and millions of those little micro messages our whole lives is why it's hard to say what needs to be said.
05:09
You can be labeled as difficult or bitchy and bossy and dramatic. And all of that messaging is real. When you take up space, you're selfish or aggressive. It's real. And what happens is that women are taught that our voices are less valuable, less authoritative, and there is an expectation that we defer to expertise outside of us, usually men.
05:40
We're socialized to smooth over conflict, to manage everybody else's comfort. And there's a real cost of being likable versus being honest. And so many of us have run into that, or we have seen other women run into that and pay the price for that.
05:58
And so it serves as another mechanism to keep us in our place. Maybe you can remember early experiences where you were told that you're overreacting. And so your feelings weren't valid, or your perceptions were dismissed or questioned or even made fun of.
06:19
Maybe you learned that expressing needs led to punishment or people that you loved and wanted to be connected to would withdraw from you or that you were labeled ungrateful. All of that really, really matters.
06:34
I received a lot of that messaging as well. And so it is kind of in the context of all of that messaging that I want to share these stories. One of the things that I always want to be is doing this same work right alongside you.
06:49
It's important to me to, in the words of one of my former mentors, to be an example of what is possible and to constantly be testing out what I am teaching on myself. And these two stories are good examples of that.
07:07
And they're examples of what I want for each of you. So both of these randomly happened at the gym. I go to a rec center. It's more of like a, I'm the younger crowd. Let's just, let's just put it that way.
07:22
And so there's a lot of older people there. And I was using a machine with an attachment, one of the cable machines at the gym, and a much older, much larger man, this guy's probably, I don't know, over six feet tall, easily 250 plus pounds, approached me.
07:40
I was listening to music. I didn't see him until he was right in my peripheral vision. It startled me. And he was waving a different attachment at me. And he said, you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to be using this.
07:55
And he was holding up, you know, the attachment that he thought I should be using. And I had a fawn response. I smiled. I started like laughing and deflecting. And I said, oh, you know, you startled me.
08:16
What? Tell me what you said. I didn't hear you. And so I invited him to tell me again. And so he repeated, you know, you're doing it wrong. This is what you should be doing. And when you do it this way, you know, this could happen.
08:28
And then I felt a little bit of anger and irritation. And so I smiled and said, you know what? I'm comfortable with how I'm using this. I've seen other people use it this way. And so I'm just going to keep doing it this way.
08:41
And then I put my AirPod back in and got back to my workout, but my heart was pounding. I was sweaty for more reasons, you know, I was working out, but I was also just really startled. And I noticed my nervous system response.
08:56
I noticed the instant fawn response that I didn't address the interruption, right? Or the assumption that he could come over and correct me. And so as I kind of started to calm down, the first thing that I did was to affirm to myself, of course you did that.
09:18
Of course you fawned. This guy like totally startled you, right? He came up. You didn't see him until he was right there. I was so gentle with that fond response, where in the past, I would have been really frustrated with myself.
09:34
I would have victim shamed and blamed myself. But I was recognizing that that startle, fond response was so normal and that it wasn't my fault and that what had happened to me was absolutely normal. And then I told myself, listen, if we want to talk about how to address what you're frustrated with, right, his input, we can do that.
10:01
But I just, I lathered myself up in so much self-love and gentleness and really affirming for myself that it made sense that I had responded that way. And that is something that I have worked really hard to develop, to not go to frustration and self-condemnation.
10:21
And so that night, as I was thinking about it, I just took the time to decide, do I want to address this? Do I want to have a conversation with this guy about the fact that his input and feedback was not asked for and so it wasn't welcome?
10:37
And I used the process that I have taught about finding the words and practicing saying them so that I could also have practice, not just with getting the words out, but with the feeling that I was going to have.
10:54
Because normal nervous system responses when you're talking to a man who is twice your size is to be anxious, possibly a little afraid and scared. But I was willing to feel that because I had decided, number one, that I was going to do it in a way that felt safe to me in a public place in the gym.
11:16
That is a really important consideration. And I'm going to talk more about that in just a little bit. But I had decided that I wanted to address it, that I was safe addressing it, that I could find the words, and that I could manage the feeling okay.
11:31
And so all of that in place, I actually practiced a little script that I wrote out. And so I decided that the next time I saw him, whenever that was, I was going to have this follow-up conversation. The next morning, as the universe would have it, we were walking into the gym at the same time.
11:52
And so I went up beside him and I said, hey, I'd like to address our interaction yesterday. Unless your feedback is asked for, it is not welcome and it is not appropriate to approach me with correction or with advice that I haven't asked for.
12:09
And I had planned to leave the conversation there and just kind of, you know, go on my way. He started, of course, well, you, you know, and well, I just had to. And so I continued the conversation and said, and furthermore, one of the things that is clear to me is that you're not actually trying to solve a problem.
12:29
Because if you really thought that that machine being used in that way was really going to cause a problem, you would have talked with the people here at the rec center about posting a sign, or you would be up there telling everyone who uses the machine that way, you know, that there was a problem with it.
12:48
But I can tell you're not actually trying to solve a problem. You're just looking for someone to correct. And that someone is not going to be me. And then I decided to turn and walk away. And I, my heart was pounding.
13:02
My nervous system was up, right? Heart pounding, blood pumping, all of the things that happen in some difficult conversations. But I felt so good. I felt really good about what I said. And I felt really good about the way that I was able to stay with my body.
13:23
I went to the bathroom after that. I calmed myself down. I showered myself with a bunch more love and praise that I had handled it in a way that I was really proud of. And then I went back to working out.
13:37
Story number two, also at the gym. In order for this story to make sense, there is a man who is in charge of every local LDS Mormon congregation, and he is known as the bishop. He is a lay minister. What that means, he doesn't, you know, he could be an accountant Monday through Friday, and then on Sunday, he is the spiritual leader, right, of this congregation, which is known as a ward.
14:05
The bishop really oversees all aspects of ward life, right? He interviews the members to see whether or not they're keeping all the rules so that they can go to the temple or participate in, you know, the different aspects of religious life.
14:22
He is really in charge of every single aspect of religious community and participation and discipline. And so in a lot of ways, I grew up with the idea that the bishop is this literal representative of God in that congregation, somebody who can receive inspiration on behalf of the members.
14:46
And for men and women, his approval can directly affect whether or not I'm considered worthy, whether or not I serve in different positions and have different responsibilities. And for a woman who is raised in that system, especially a good girl like me, the bishop represents like divinely sanctioned authority whose approval really equates to God's approval.
15:18
So that is the context for this next story. And it also happened at the gym. So I went to the gym in the middle of the afternoon, which I never, ever do. I say that because I really believe that when you are ready to work on something, the universe gives you opportunities.
15:38
And just like I just happened to be walking in the gym at the same time as the big guy who interrupted me, I was at the gym at three o'clock in the afternoon because I had had some cancellations in my schedule.
15:51
And I saw my bishop, my old bishop from the time when Dan, my husband, was leaving the church. And this bishop and I have kind of a painful history. There were some things that he participated in, that he did directly to my family, to my children, that he did directly to people that I care about, including me, that interactions that I had with him that felt really problematic.
16:21
I used to call him the nicest asshole I knew because he had this way of being really nice-ish, like smile on his face. But a lot of the things that happened were really painful. And I have carried that.
16:38
I, from time to time, would see his wife in the morning when I usually go. And I would just have this like, ugh, feeling. I fantasized for a time about writing him this anonymous letter where I kind of laid out all of my grievances and all of the hurt in a way that, you know, was really an attempt to not carry it all myself, but I never did that.
17:04
And there he is at three o'clock in the afternoon. And I noticed him see me. And I thought, shit, I don't know if I want to talk to this guy. And right as he was coming over, I got a phone call, which gave me a minute to collect myself.
17:23
After the few minutes of speaking on the phone, I pretended to continue the conversation on the phone because I needed a minute. I needed a pause, right? I teach that the pause is one of the most important things we can give ourselves to calm our nervous systems, to kind of come back to ourselves and make a decision about what we want to do.
17:43
And I knew in that moment, I really had three options. I said to myself, hey, Sara, if you want, you can totally leave. You can just walk right out, not even talk to him, pretend like this never happened and go home.
17:58
Number two, your option is, if he comes over to you, you can have a fake, pleasant conversation. You can pretend like everything's fine. You can smile. You can nod your head and just kind of bluff your way, pretend your way, perform your way through the nice conversation, air quotes around nice.
18:18
Or number three, you could have an honest conversation and you could ask him if he has a moment for some honest conversation. And I thought about that and I gave myself enough time to decide, okay, if I were to choose that, how would I feel?
18:36
Well, I would probably feel nervous and maybe a little emotional. Could you handle that? Yeah, I think I could handle that. What if he got mad? How would you handle that? Well, I would just turn around and leave.
18:47
Okay. So I knew that I could handle each of those conversations. And I decided that if he came over to me, I would go for option number three. So when he came over and initiated a conversation, I said, hey, do you have a moment for some honest conversation?
19:09
And he said, yes. And I said, even if it feels a little bit prickly in the beginning. And he said, yes. And so we kind of walked off to the side and I told him I laid out each hurtful incident clearly.
19:27
I didn't pull any punches. And I noticed some emotion coming up, some sadness and some hurt that is still in my body from the time that those things happened. And I said to him, you'll notice some emotion, some hurt that I still feel, because those things happened at a time when my family needed graciousness and generosity and care and grace.
19:55
And I didn't feel like we found it with you in particular. And I've carried that for a long time. And then I also said, the other thing that I can also acknowledge is that I believe that you were doing the best that you knew how to do at the time, that there were probably some other things going on for you that I wasn't aware of.
20:20
And so I can hold both of those things, that you hurt my family deeply, and that you were probably doing the best you could. And then I stopped talking. And I saw him try to find some words and some emotion come up for him.
20:38
And he acknowledged that he wishes he would have treated our family with more compassion, that he was really struggling to do his job with the kind of compassion that now he wishes he had been able to do.
20:54
And I'm not going to go into the details of everything we talked about, but it was a lovely conversation that really cleared the air and kind of cleared that space between us. And I walked out of that gym feeling like I was flying.
21:15
When I really tried to ask myself, okay, what are you feeling that feels so amazing right now? It was freedom. It was freedom. And it was that type of like alignment and congruity and integrity with myself that I don't feel all the time, but I'm feeling more and more.
21:38
And I'm telling these stories because I know that we all struggle with having these kinds of conversations. And we want to be able to be honest without letting really big emotions overtake the conversation and kind of overpower us, that we have patterns of avoiding conversation because we are afraid of getting too angry or crying or breaking down.
22:06
And that it is a skill to hold those emotions and let them be present without being consumed by them. I'm not saying that you need to always control your emotions and conversations. I think some of the most powerful moments of conversation can be when we let those feelings really take center stage and we let people see our emotions.
22:32
But I also know that sometimes that doesn't serve the conversation or the outcome that we want. And so I'm sharing these conversations that I have had because it felt like freedom for me. I was no longer carrying his actions for him and the emotions of those feelings, right?
22:53
The resentment, the hurt, and that unspoken pain was gone because I had shared it with the other person who was in that situation with me. There was also freedom from the story that I had told myself that I was bad at having these kind of conversations or that my emotions would take over and that that was a good reason for not having them.
23:19
There was also freedom from the fear of my own emotions that they were somehow bad or that the presence of them would mean that I couldn't be honest in conversation. There was freedom from being silent, realizing that speaking up didn't destroy the possibility of connection that it actually created it.
23:42
Because even though I don't think this man and I are going to have, you know, a long friendship, I could now see him across the room and wave, say hi, acknowledge him, and totally mean it. There is a connection now that didn't exist before then.
24:00
And I'm no longer held hostage by the what if, what if I run into him, what if I see him, which I have had before with people. There's also the freedom from fearing physical sensations, right? That the clenching in my chest that used to happen around difficult conversations.
24:21
The freedom from performing, from having to perform niceness that so many of us are stuck in. And I think the deepest freedom is from the connection that I now have to myself, trusting, knowing that I can handle hard things.
24:42
I can handle hard conversations. So a couple of things I want you to remember. This doesn't mean you always have the hard conversation, right? There are actual safety concerns. It's also important to ask yourself, do I want to spend the time doing this?
25:00
Do I want to spend the emotional energy doing this? Is this a relationship that has the capacity for this kind of honesty? If the answer to those questions is no, then it's no. This is not a prescription.
25:16
I think you need to ask yourself, is this person capable of hearing me? And if they don't, am I okay with that? What am I hoping to get out of this conversation? I was hoping to say what I needed to say, and I felt pretty sure that I could handle whatever happened.
25:33
But this process is very personal. You get to decide when to speak and when to stay silent because both can actually be acts of self-respect and power. I share because so many of us want less anxiety, less resentment, deeper connection, more trust, more vulnerability, more intimacy, and the feeling of freedom.
26:01
And that is something that can be developed by practicing skills. If you are tired of carrying the weight of unsaid things, if you want to know what it feels like to walk out of a hard conversation feeling lighter and freer instead of heavier, if you're ready to stop abandoning yourself in the name of keeping the peace, there are some things you can do to start small.
26:25
You can notice what you are not saying and get curious about why. Always practice with lower stakes situations first. And then you can get some support. I would love to support you. I would love to teach you the skills, to show you how to manage your beautiful nervous system and to lather and slather yourself up and down with love and with care in a way that actually makes these conversations more accessible for you.
26:56
If this feels like something that you are ready for, you can go to my website, Sarafisk.coach, and schedule a call with me because I want everyone to feel this type of freedom. I want you to remember speaking up isn't about being brave all of the time.
27:13
It's about building a relationship with your own body, your own voice, your own words, and then sometimes slowly, sometimes scared, but truthfully, finding ways to speak up. And that feeling of walking out lighter and freer, more connected, more deeply honest to yourself is something that is available to everyone.
27:39
And I would love if you would let me know if this story resonated with you or if there's something I can do to help you start to build that freedom in your own life. Thanks for listening. I'll see you next week.
