Episode 180 - From People Pleaser to Trans Rights Advocate with Mandy Giles
Staying in the box you were taught to fit into can feel easier than speaking up and risking conflict, but what happens when silence means letting down the people you love? In this episode, you’ll hear from Mandy Giles, founder and CEO of Parents of Trans Youth, about how parenting transgender young adults helped her find her voice and become an advocate for the world she wants her kids to live in. Her story shows what can happen when standing up for what matters becomes more important than keeping everyone else happy.
How long have you been putting off the hard conversation? Join Sara live for one hour for her free workshop, SPEAK UP. There’s no replay, so bring the conversation you keep avoiding. You’ll learn the Three Speak Up Skills and figure out what’s keeping you stuck.
Here’s what you’ll uncover in this episode:
Why talking about your transgender child with other people can be one of the biggest hurdles, even when you’re fully accepting
How advocating for your children can help you discover a courage you didn’t know you had
How to talk about LGBTQ+ topics in a way that is helpful and supportive
Why stepping outside the boxes you were taught to fit into can help you live more authentically and make room for others to do the same
The resources available to parents of transgender youth and how to find support
Find Mandy here:
www.instagram.com/parentsoftransyouth
Mandy Giles (she/her) is the parent of two transgender young adults and the founder and CEO of Parents of Trans Youth, a social impact business that provides learning, support, and community for caregivers of transgender, nonbinary, and gender-diverse kids and young adults. She has been heavily involved in advocacy work since 2021 and has testified before the Texas Legislature dozens of times. Mandy is the 2026 Pride Houston Ally Grand Marshal, recipient of the Equality Texas 2025 Business Champion Award, and former president of PFLAG Houston.
Register for SPEAK UP: sarafisk.coach/voice
Find Sara here:
pages.sarafisk.coach/difficultconversations
youtube.com/@sarafiskcoaching1333
Transcript
Sara Bybee Fisk 00:58
Mandy, this is such, um, an honor to spend some time with you this morning. I know you are so busy and you have so much on your plate, especially now. So before we get into why I really wanted to talk to you, could you give people listening just a brief introduction to who you are and what you do?
Mandy Giles 01:17
Sure, sure. Um, thank you so much for having me on. So I'm Mandy Giles. My pronouns are she/her, and I am the mom of two transgender young adults.They are non-binary, and then I have, um, a son as well, um, who is nineteen. Um, and I am also the founder and CEO of the social impact business, Parents of Trans Youth. Uh, I live in Houston in Texas, so, um, let's just say I have a lot of work, um, in, in my line of work in Texas. Um, and it's been a journey, both creating this business and also, uh, figuring out how to be the best kind of parent to all of my kids, um, and doing this work in a very hostile state. So yeah, that's me in a nutshell.
Sara Bybee Fisk 02:08
I am so interested because I see two, like, really clear themes here. Like number one, in order to become someone who can speak up, especially in this political climate, especially now about a, you know, vulnerable population in our country, you must have gone through some changes.Or have you always been someone who just could advocate, who had extraordinary courage, who never worried about disappointing other people?
Mandy Giles 02:44
Oh my gosh. No, no, no, no, no. I was, um... I'm so glad I'm on your podcast. I was a born people pleaser. Um, or I am, uh, still. It's very hard for me to say no, and I just want everybody to be happy.So no, I've never done any kind of public, had never done any kind of public advocacy before on any kind of issue. Um, like no confrontation, no conflict. And so my kids, the non-binary kids are both twenty-four. The first kiddo came out to us as non-binary when they were a freshman in high school, and the other kiddo came out to us as non-binary as a freshman in college. So when the first kid came out to me and my husband, um, I didn't know really what transgender meant. I didn't know what non-binary meant. Um, we had actually been going to PFLAG, excellent resource by the way, highly recommend, uh, because that child had previously come out to us as bisexual, and we were like, "Okay, that's great," and what does this mean? And so we went to go get some support and some help and meet some other parents. But when they came out as non-binary, it's like I don't know anything. And so I had to dig deep in myself and really look at what I thought I knew about gender. You know, nobody expects the gender of their child to change. And then I had to learn, but wait a minute, is, is gender different than sex? Spoiler alert, yes, they're different. Uh, and then, and then you throw sexual orientation in the mix, and that's different. And so I had to do a lot of education for myself, and it was really hard to find those resources out there that, that what I needed. Uh, meeting other parents, I started going to conferences and workshops and p- places like PFLAG to learn more and to meet other parents of trans kids. And that is where I got most of my support. And so that's how kind of I, I eventually created Parents of Trans Youth, k- making the resource that I wish I had. But yeah, I definitely had to go through a personal transformation and kind of in a way I'm having this vision of like ripping down the things that I thought I knew and that I was taught and, and building something new and it-- that's-- it's scary. I know a lot of parents that I work with are really terrified to think, "Well, wait a minute, if, if that's not true, then, like, what else? What else is not true that I've been taught?" Either by, gosh, your, your family, your community, your faith, uh, your schools. Um, and then once you start looking at the world in a different way and looking at the amazing possibilities, and it's, I'm giving myself goosebumps. Like it's, it's this beautiful diversity of whether you think of it as, as creation of nature of, um, this beautiful universe that, that we all live in and, and that my kids kind of represent. Um, so- So yeah, it's, it was a, a hard transformation and a beautiful one
Sara Bybee Fisk 06:16
I really identify with the absolutely wonderful and traumatic experience- ... of having what you believed, what you thought was right-
Mandy Giles 06:26
Yeah
Sara Bybee Fisk 06:26
... kind of what you thought would guide you, and how things would be for the rest of your life just kind of crumbling-
Mandy Giles 06:31
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 06:32
... underneath you, and, like, trying to hold on to some of the... But also at the same time realizing, like, "Wait, I, I don't know if I want to believe this anymore, especially-
Mandy Giles 06:44
Mm
Sara Bybee Fisk 06:44
... if it hurts my child."
Mandy Giles 06:46
For sure.
Sara Bybee Fisk 06:46
Especially if there is something here. And, and so when you describe, you know, that transformation, there's so many layers that I just wanna name. Because number one-
Mandy Giles 06:57
Yeah
Sara Bybee Fisk 06:57
... you're, you're losing what you thought was right, and you are losing the common information that formed the bonds of your relationships, right?
Mandy Giles 07:07
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 07:07
'Cause if everybody believes the same thing, it's very easy to be bonded-
Mandy Giles 07:12
Mm
Sara Bybee Fisk 07:12
... and to belong and to have community, right?
Mandy Giles 07:15
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 07:16
But now if I don't believe the same things about sexuality, about gender, and about sex, that disrupts those bonds. And so those bonds are being disrupted at the same time that you're having to figure out, okay, but now what do I believe?
Mandy Giles 07:30
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 07:31
And what are, you know, what are my new beliefs and who am I in these new beliefs? And then, then I gotta talk to people about it.
Mandy Giles 07:41
Yes.
Sara Bybee Fisk 07:42
Right? Then I've gotta have sometimes really difficult conversations where I know that I could potentially disrupt or harm or even end relationships that have mattered to me for a long time, in my family, my family of origin, in my community, in my religious groups, in my friend groups.That's a lot.
Mandy Giles 08:03
Yes. For sure. That is a really good way of putting it, that common bond of information. Uh, oh, there's so many different ways we could take that, like, places we could take that . But, um, just thinking about what's going on in our country right now of, of where your information is coming from or, um, who is telling you that information and, and who you're sharing that information with and blah, blah.But, but on a personal level, having h- the change in me, the change in my kids, and that different way of thinking about the world did change some of my relationships. Uh, we, uh, uh, our family... And it's funny, I don't know if we did this on purpose or not, but, like, our, say, church community is very affirming. And when our kids came out, they were like, "Oh, how nice that, that this was like this. Great." And then, like, our school community was very affirming. And just the kind of people we, we ran with in that situation, like, they're affirming. We're like, "Oh, well, that, that was good. I guess we made a good choice there." Our neighborhood and, and somebody told me recently, like, "Mm, that was not, that was not coincidence. Something, something was going on there," you know? Um, but at the same time, like, I know, uh, my parents for instance, they love my kids, they support my kids, they use my kids' new names. Uh, they don't mess up on that anymore. They cannot get the pronouns. Both my kids use they/them pronouns, cannot get it. And when they do, like once a month, then it's like, "Yay, you did it. Good job." Um, and I know that I cannot talk to them about what's going on with my kids. There's certain information we have not shared with them. Uh, I, they don't really know what I do. They don't really care. So I know, like, that they are not someone who I can share that information with. Uh, and so yeah, I can definitely see that disruption of relationships, community, when you start looking at the world or believing things sort of in a different way. I think that was a really good way of putting it.
Sara Bybee Fisk 10:17
Yeah. And I, I would be tempted to say, you know, that your, you're having, you know, of, of such an affirming community is probably something you attracted because you are that type of, of affirming person.I was not, right? So in my, my early growing up and in my religious life, I would not have been affirming. I, I would've absolutely said, "That is not something God wants you to mess with. Your gender is eternal. You were created the way you are supposed to be." And so for people who fall, you know, more into my camp where-
Mandy Giles 10:54
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 10:54
... you have a, a, a past that is different than where you are now-
Mandy Giles 10:59
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 10:59
... I think part of the pain is not only who I, you know, who I used to be and who I, the harm I might have caused then-
Mandy Giles 11:09
Yeah, yeah
Sara Bybee Fisk 11:10
... but also the huge learning curve that it is now to become not just someone who is, um, educated and actually knows the nuances and the biological information that is absolutely essential to understanding sex, sexuality, and gender and how they're different and how, you know, they are not what they might seem on the surface. But also to come to the point where I, I can talk about these things. I can have hard conversations.I can speak up for my child in situations where it, you know, it, it's really scary for me. So Mandy-
Mandy Giles 11:53
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 11:54
... I wonder, was there ever a moment when you realized that supporting your child would require you to become someone you hadn't been before?
Mandy Giles 12:08
Hmm. There, okay, there are a few times. Um, and yeah, they really Have to do with that telling other people and talking about it. 'Cause that, that's a huge hurdle for so many parents.'Cause you can, you can be all great in your house and be like, "Yay, it's a, let's wave the trans flag. Woo-hoo." And then you go outside and you're like, "How do I either tell people? How do I say my kid's name?" You know, whatever. So I guess it, it w- it was just after our first, my first kiddo, Indigo, came out to our family, and, uh, it was the summertime at, at my work, and I had to take them to work with me. I don't remember why. And the, the place where I was working at the time, um, was a Christian-based nonprofit, and, uh, uh, all sorts of different people worked there, all, all ends of whatever kinda political spectrum, anything. Um, but I didn't know what was gonna happen when I took them there. And so we pulled up, and all of a sudden I was like, "Oh my gosh, wait a minute. Hold on. They have a new name." And so I turned to Indigo and was like, "Um, so do you, what, what, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to use your new name and pronouns?" And they were like, "Yeah." So I'm like, "Okay." And so there was like a really, thank goodness there was a really long walk to the back of the building to where my office was, so I could like, "Oh, shit, what am I gonna do? What hap- what am I gonna say?" So we walked back there, and the, the, the thing was they had met my kid before with a different name, and so it was like, "Oh, this is a change." So we just came in, I was like, "Oh, hi, y'all. Um, um, In- Indigo is gonna be joining me today. We're gonna be in my office," so you know, just totally coughed over the pronouns. You know, I... And I think after, on a different day or something, I, because I was gonna be referring to my kid in a different way, you know, I worked in a place where we talked about our personal lives, then I, I knew I needed to kinda say something and, and my child had given me permission to do that. And so I went to each of my coworkers individually rather than, like, calling a meeting like, "Hello, my kid is trans." Uh, and just said, "Hey, you know, just wanted to let you know, um, my kid is nonbinary and, and this is why they're using, you know, a new name and pronouns." And most everybody was like, "Oh, okay, cool." I was like, "All right." There was only one person that I told, and she gave this face like, "Ew, no." And so I was like, "Okay." Again, like, I know that is not the person that I share anything about my children with. Okay, uh, that's all. I will work with her, and that's all we need to do. So, but it was terrifying, and you'd think, like, just saying my kid's name should not have been terrifying, but it was because of what that represented. Uh, not only in that environment, but kind of like we've been talking about, a different belief, a different way of looking at the world, and I didn't know if other people saw the world that way, if we would be breaking that common bond of information or not.
Mandy Giles 15:35
Um, and so that was terrifying. And then fast-forward, mm, maybe six months or so, still in that same office, that, that workplace. We were doing a big fundraiser at this fancy country club place, whatever, it was like a ladies' lunch thing. And I, I was working at it, and I ran into a friend who I knew from high school, and our kids, like, went to preschool together, whatever. And so they're like, "Oh my gosh, Mandy, hi." I'm like, "Well, how are so and so and so and so?" And I was like, "Gosh." So I was like, "Okay. Um, well, actually, um, so and so goes by Indigo now, and they use the pronouns they/them." They're like, "What? Oh, gosh." And so at the time, I thought I needed to do, like, a gender 101 presentation, like, you know, whip out PowerPoint slides or something. And this is, meanwhile, this is, like, at a work event that I'm working at. And so I was like, "Well, they, they're nonbinary, and this is what that means." And so th- and they were asking, like, the most invasive questions, and I thought I had to answer them. Uh, like, "Oh my gosh, are they gonna get the surgery?" And I was like, "Uh," I was like, "How do I even answer that?" Like, number one, please don't talk about my child's genitals. And two, like, not everybody gets the surgery. And also three, like, there's not just one. Other, there's many things, and, like, it's none of your business. Uh, or like, "What are you gonna do, like, when hormones? Like, what about dating? What about clothes?" And, and I thought I had to answer all the questions. And after that event was over and I collected myself, I was like, okay, the, I, yes, I can stand up for my kid, but I don't have to always do it in that way.And also I realized, like, okay, this was a woman who, pretty savvy, pretty well-educated, and she knew nothing about what that meant to parent a trans child. And so I thought, okay, so if she doesn't know, then I wonder who else doesn't know. And also looking around at this room of, like, fancy people, this speaker that we paid, you know, a bajillion dollars for or whatever, and I was like, "Hmm, I would like to be that person on the stage educating all these people." And to do that, kind of that, that standing up for my children and showing people that this is what loving parenting looks like, then my relationship with my children kinda took on a different, uh, dimension kind of. I had to get to the point, and they had to get to the point where we checked in with each other every step of the way about what is okay to say. "Is this okay? Can I say this about you?" Because I needed their permission to say anything about them. And, and I still do that to this day, and they're 24 years old. Um- And especially in advocacy work, especially in Texas, they needed to be 18 before I could say certain things about them. So I don't know if that answered your original question, but kind of putting myself out there s- for my children and for children like them, and I think that took on a new dimension of, of my work, my, my... who I was, um, what I spoke about, um, whether I cared what people thought of me or not, um, all that.
Mandy Giles 19:08
Like, that, especially that, that fundraiser moment was a huge spark into the work that I am doing today.
Sara Bybee Fisk 19:16
It's so interesting. There's so many things that you said- ... that kind of grabbed my attention because, and I'll describe kind of what, what I see with the clients that I work with, and you tell me if it feels familiar to you or if it felt different from your experience.Because so often women, because of the good girl rules that we kind of grow up steeped in, we are primed to over-disclose-
Mandy Giles 19:40
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 19:41
... as a way of getting people to understand us and like us and to feel safe with them.
Mandy Giles 19:48
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 19:49
And so being asked invasive questions feels like I have to provide these answers so that she might understand me, so that she won't have bad feelings toward me or toward my child. It's a way of creating what, what we think is that if I just give them what they want, and if I answer in a way that sounds reasonable or sounds logical or sounds like I know what I'm talking about, then they will relax, and we will be able to relax, and they... I, I won't feel threatened. I won't feel like I'm disappointing them.I will make sense to them, and they'll go, "Oh, okay. Well, yeah, that makes, that makes so much sense. I accept your child. I accept, you know, what you're doing." And so that over-disclosure, just where we talk and talk and talk and talk, trying to get them to see our point of view or understand us or think that we're reasonable, is such a big part of the good girl who's now an adult experience. Did that feel like what was going on for you? Did it feel different? Do you notice that in parents you work with, especially women?
Mandy Giles 20:57
Oh my gosh, yes. For sure. Um, yeah, because especially, like, just that moment, that example, I felt like I needed to... well, that it was my job to make her understand. Um, so that was, I think, part of that over-disclosure.Um, that I needed to make her feel okay about my kids, who I was, that it was okay for me to be affirming to my kids. And, and I think that, that pro- comes up a lot. Like, people don't know... And, and part of what we were saying, like, you don't know what to say to people, and so that makes so much sense about the, that connection of being the good girl, not wanting to upset anyone, making people comfortable, and you still have to tell people your kid's new name to honor your child and respect your child. And so this, oh my gosh, you've given me, like, this brain blowup moment, that that, uh, uh, makes so much sense why people are so, women-
Sara Bybee Fisk 22:08
Yeah
Mandy Giles 22:08
... m- and moms are so hesitant to tell people, um, because they're so afraid of what people are gonna think, what people are gonna say. You don't want people to be confused. And actually, one of the f- this is a really, a funny example that, um, the confusion can happen so much when you are, you know, your child has different pronouns. Um, when they have they/them pronouns, that can get even a little more confusing, something like, "Wait, what?" And then because I have twins, then when I would refer to one of them as they, then like, "Wait, wait, both of them, wait, both of them are, are at school at, at UT?" "No, no, just, just one. Just Indigo." "Wait, you said they. Ah, gosh, yes." And it just, ah, and, and in fact, one of the things that worked for me, and now I'm realizing why this makes so much sense, is to have, like, one sentence to explain my kid's new name and, and that is what I help, you know, tell other parents, like, "This could be really helpful for you, too," mostly moms, that, like, just say, "Oh, yeah, um, Indigo, you know, goes by Indigo now and uses they/them pronouns." That's it.That's it. And then if you, depending on the relationship, if you want to say more, you can. You never have to. No one is entitled to information about your child or, or your family, and you are never obligated to give that information. Um, and it is not your job to make everyone else feel more comfortable. It's, uh, uh, when you're talking about transgender people, it's everyone else's job to figure out how to be comfortable. And so with that one sentence, there have been times where I say that sentence, and then I kind of look at their face like, "Hmm. Are they open to learning more? Do they want to?" Or like, do I not wanna tell this person, like, "Oh, okay, I've gotta go get another drink. All right. Hmm," you know? Like, "Oh, I gotta go to the bathroom. Eh, whatever." Or like, "Mm, good to see you. Okay, I gotta, mm. Oh, gosh, look at the time." Um, and you never have to say anything else. So yeah, just, just saying a name can be so hard, and you want to make people feel better about new information. It all, yeah, it goes back. It still connects to that, that bond of information and wanting to keep that bond with people, and so this makes so much sense.
Sara Bybee Fisk 24:37
And so much of it, like you just mentioned, you're watching their face, you're looking at their-
Mandy Giles 24:42
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 24:42
... body language. So much of it is subconscious, and we start to tell ourself a story about it.But that moment where you just say, "You know what? My child is now this name, and they use they/them pronouns," and you stop talking.
Mandy Giles 24:56
It's so hard.
Sara Bybee Fisk 24:57
It is so hard because- ... we are so trained to make other people feel comfortable.
Mandy Giles 25:03
Yeah, yeah.
Sara Bybee Fisk 25:03
And we are picking up on facial expressions and body language and what is said and what isn't said.
Mandy Giles 25:08
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 25:08
And so what I have found time and time again, though, is that mothers will do things and become things for their children that they have not yet been able to do or become for themselves.
Mandy Giles 25:25
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 25:25
And I wonder, as you became the parent that your kids needed, did you feel like you were discovering courage? Or, or what did you discover that impressed you, that, that made you think of yourself differently?
Mandy Giles 25:46
Oh, yeah. Um, well, when I started thinking about, um, creating something around, you know, advocating for trans kids or educating people really, um, it was mostly about supporting parents, um, you know, maybe getting some little presentations about like, "This is what it's like to love your trans kid." And I, I ended up quitting that job that I was at before and kind of jumping out on a limb like, "Okay, let's see what this is gonna be." By the way, it was like a week before the COVID shutdown.Mm, womp, womp. And then l- later on, I f- I... Kind of long story, but I found myself in Austin during the Texas legislative session, and they happen every other year in Texas. That was one of the years where the anti-trans bills were ramping up, and that year was all about trans kids in sports. So I happened to be in Austin when that first bill came up during that session, and I was like, "Oh, my gosh." Like, "Do, do I go? I don't even know. What is that?" And, uh, I talked to other people who knew the kind of work that I was doing, and they were like, "Yeah, you can go. And you can, in fact, you know, you can represent PFLAG because you're an officer." And it's like, "Oh, God, I have to do this." And like I, I have terrible logistical anxiety of like, "I don't know where to park. I don't know..." It is so hard to find anything in the Texas Capitol. Like, where do I put my purse? They were doing like COVID testing before you had to get in the Cap- It was just awful. But I figured out even before I got there, like, "Okay, who can I reach out to and figure out like what the fuck I'm doing?" Because I don't know. Um, so I got some training from an organization that does this work in Texas, figured out what that meant to go testify publicly against a bill. And so I learned, okay, you've got two minutes to say anything you want to. Here's how to craft your message. I learned that anything you say is public record, so your name, your face, your address, all public record. So I was like, "Okay." So I, I went there terrified. I bonded with like three other people, in fact, three other allies who it was all our first time, uh, testifying. Friends with all of them today. This was in 2021. And when it was my turn to go, oh, my gosh, I was shaking. My voice was shaking. I g- I... And like I was thinking, "This is what I wanna do for a living is speak, and why am I scared? I don't know." Because all these, oh, horrible lawmakers who are not on my side were on this, you know, dais kind of looking down at everybody, and I just told my very personal and vulnerable story about how this particular bill affected my kid and other kids like them and why this bill was bad. And then after I gave my testimony and ran out of the room, I was hooked. I was like higher than a kite. I was like, "Yes, this is what I wanna do forever." And so since then, I have testified dozens and dozens of times over the past, oh, whatever, six years in three legislative sessions and, um, against the millions of anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ bills.
Mandy Giles 29:14
Um, I have spoken at rallies and protests. That's something I'd never done before of like, how do you give like a motivational speech and like, "Woo-hoo," you know? Um, instead of like, "Hi, I'm Mandy Jones, and this is what I'm going to tell you today." Like, how do you get people cheering and, and like riled up? And I've learned how to do that and put myself out there and like say bad words in, in speeches. And I really have to censor myself now.And so just that one like stepping out on the ledge and, and doing something for, for my kids, which turned out to be doing something for all trans kids in, in Texas and all families, and that's turned into... Like, this January I spoke out at a rally on the steps of the Supreme Court for our nation's trans kids, and it all started with that one just knowing that I had to do what was within my capability of doing and, and what, what I was able to do, what I could do, and like reaching down into myself and finding that courage. Um, and with each time that I testify, I remember my kids and showing them that I will do whatever it takes to stand up for them. And so even though I'm tired and it's a three-hour drive from Houston to Austin, when a bill comes up, I will be there because I need to show them that I, as a mom, I will be there and fight for them and fight for the people in their community. And I did not think I was gonna cry. Um- And I, and what's really cool is that they have testified. They have given testimony in front of these, these assholes who are taking away their rights. So as like 18-year-olds, they've stood up to these horrible people and saying like, "Why are you doing this to me? That I'm just living my life, and so why, why are you taking away my right to participate in sports, my right to learn about my community in, in school, in college, um, taking away DEI provisions in colleges and all..." I could go on and on. Um, so that's something I'm really, really proud of, that I have shown them how they can use their voices and stand up for themselves and other people like them.
Sara Bybee Fisk 31:45
I hope that we get to see the video of that moment when you said, you know, "I left that first time testifying, and I was like, 'That's what I want to do.'" Because in learning to advocate for children who can't advocate for themselves the same way-
Mandy Giles 32:07
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 32:07
... that an adult can advocate for them, it's, it's so full of unexpected gifts in what you are forced to become. You are forced-
Mandy Giles 32:17
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 32:18
... to use your voice. You are forced to find the words.You are forced to think deeply about why this matters, and you discover a version of yourself that may never have existed otherwise. And what I, kind of where my work meets what you're talking about is-
Mandy Giles 32:39
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 32:39
... I want women to realize that they deserve the same fierce advocacy and loyalty that for themselves, for what they want-
Mandy Giles 32:51
Mm
Sara Bybee Fisk 32:51
... and need, that they have-
Mandy Giles 32:52
Mm. Yeah
Sara Bybee Fisk 32:53
... developed for their children. That what they want and need might be, um, you know, less pressing in terms of political climate and, and there are some genuine, you know, emergency situations that have happened in the current political climate with-
Mandy Giles 33:10
Sure
Sara Bybee Fisk 33:10
... with trans parents and, and, uh, parents of trans children and caregivers. And in those moments when their needs matter, they deserve that same fierce advocacy and, and loyalty.
Mandy Giles 33:22
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 33:22
And so I just, I thank you for giving us such a beautiful-
Mandy Giles 33:26
Yeah
Sara Bybee Fisk 33:26
... example of how you developed that for yourself. I wanna ask a little bit of a different question right now because I think for a lot of my listeners, they are aware, they, they absolutely tend to fall in the category of wanting to advocate for fairness and justice and for, uh, marginalized and, and vulnerable populations.But I wonder if you could just give us an overview of, given that trans people literally make up less than 1% of the population, or about 1% of the-
Mandy Giles 34:04
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 34:04
... American population, what is the big deal about trans kids, about their parents and caregivers? Why are they being so demonized? And how do we talk about this in a way that is helpful and supportive?
Mandy Giles 34:20
Oh my gosh, that is the million-dollar question. You know, it's so funny, I gave, um, a presentation to a, a group of college students at, at Georgetown University not too long ago, and, um, and you know, saying like, "Oh, this is what's going on in Texas for all of the..." And one kid raised their hand, they were like, "Why is this happening? Who cares?" Like, yeah, there you go.That's... If I could answer that. Oh, there's so many answers to that question. Um, one, when you have anything dealing with kids, children, so many emotions because you've got parents who, um, it, it plays, it plays on parental fears of, am I doing this right? It goes back to like, am I, am, am I, am I okay? Am I doing it right? Am I being good? Am I doing what I'm taught? And, and I think every parent has those fears to some extent that, you know, is, is this the way I should be doing things? And then you have kind of played into kind of society fears about the children. What's happening to the children? And then also, I think a bigger part of it is kinda messing with the status quo. And when you have people in power who have benefited from the status quo, then they don't want anything to change because they would lose their power, their privilege. Um, like, oh my gosh, what happens if these transgender people start speaking up? Then they might be wrong, and people won't listen to them, and they might lose their power. And most people in power wanna hang on to it. And then you have people who are afraid, I think, of trans joy because if you... Oh, and I'm seeing, okay, I'm seeing a connection here. If you have been taught that the way you can be good and not ruffle any feathers is to stay in your box, to stay in whatever box you were assigned, and that's where you are. And like you can't do that, that's over there. You can't go hang out at the Pride Parade where people are laughing and, and joyous and having fun and, and wearing colorful clothes, whatever. You need to stay in your box. And so then you might look at those people over there and say, "Well, why are they so happy? Why are they so joyful? That can't be right because you're supposed to be in... This is how you're good. This, this is how- We were taught to do that. And so I think that is why it is so important to see representation stories of trans joy and positive representations, and there's so, so many reasons for that, just for, for, um, transgender people, for trans kids to see positive representations and say like, "Oh my gosh, that could be me too, and I can see a future for myself." And to be able to see that joy and to be able to say like, "Oh, I can get out of that box. I can be over there with the fun people and the people who are laughing and smiling and not in my sad little box where I'm the good girl." And I think really, uh, sort of related, like it took me a while to get out of that box and for me to be with the fun people, and you know what? Those people are a lot more fun. Like, all my friends now are like LGBTQ.
Mandy Giles 38:08
I have very few straight friends now, um, cisgender straight friends, and I still do, but also like they're just a lot more fun and colorful and alive, and I like being over there. And I think that's scary to a lot of people because then you look in yourself like, "Well, what does that mean for me?" That's the other part of it. So too, like, well, uh, what if I might h- have part of that? And that's terrifying to a lot of people. Like-
Sara Bybee Fisk 38:38
Hmm
Mandy Giles 38:38
... what if I... What, what does that mean to question my sexuality or my gender? And it's okay to question and discover. I mean, it's totally natural and normal, and maybe you discover like, "Okay, this is who I was all along," or, "Ooh, could be something different," and that's really cool. But it's scary for all the reasons we've talked about, that your information is changing and your world is changing, and it's just, and it's scary.So n- all of those are reasons, uh, just that they're not... I don't even know. They're, they're almost like excuses in a way for people to think transgender kids are, I don't, the product of, oh my gosh, I've been called so many terrible names. I'm not even gonna say them here. Um, of parents who are doing terrible things to their children. Um, yeah, and a lot of it is just misinformation and disinformation, and, um, again, that common bond of information. And so if you're watching a certain news station and they're telling you what to think about trans kids and all these scary transgender people, then you're like, "Oh, they, they must be right." Um, and to think differently from that can be scary. Does that make any sense?
Sara Bybee Fisk 39:50
Yes, it does. It, it especially-
Mandy Giles 39:52
It's a lot.
Sara Bybee Fisk 39:53
Well, especially this idea of the boxes though, and I just wanna come back to that-
Mandy Giles 39:57
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 39:57
... for just a second-
Mandy Giles 39:57
Yeah
Sara Bybee Fisk 39:58
... because our boxes aren't just our gender, our sex, and our sexuality. They're our roles.
Mandy Giles 40:04
Yes.
Sara Bybee Fisk 40:04
Who we are expected to be.
Mandy Giles 40:06
Yes.
Sara Bybee Fisk 40:06
They are the rules that we grew up thinking that we had to keep, and I think when I look at... This is one of my favorite examples because it sometimes still happens. When I go upstairs and my husband is taking a nap in the middle of the day on a Saturday, I'm a lot better about it now, but my first reaction was like- ... "Who the fuck do you think you are?"
Mandy Giles 40:30
Oh, that is so-
Sara Bybee Fisk 40:31
Right?
Mandy Giles 40:31
I relate.
Sara Bybee Fisk 40:33
Because he's not checking that box of Saturdays are work days. That's how I grew up.
Mandy Giles 40:38
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 40:38
And I think-
Mandy Giles 40:38
How dare you relax? Yeah.
Sara Bybee Fisk 40:39
Exactly. Exactly. And so one of the ways that we can serve the broader queer community is by getting out of our own boxes.
Mandy Giles 40:50
Yeah.
Sara Bybee Fisk 40:50
Whatever those boxes are because when I see, um, someone like Alok who-
Mandy Giles 40:56
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 40:57
... wears clothing the way they wear and makeup the way they wear, it stretches my imagination about what is possible for me.
Mandy Giles 41:07
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 41:07
Because so, so much I think of our resentment toward other people who are out of their boxes is, "Listen, I am doing the best I can to fit myself in this fucking box. Why aren't you?"
Mandy Giles 41:18
Yeah. Yeah.
Sara Bybee Fisk 41:19
Why aren't you?
Mandy Giles 41:19
Unfollow the rules.
Sara Bybee Fisk 41:20
That's what we're supposed to be doing here.
Mandy Giles 41:21
Yeah.
Sara Bybee Fisk 41:22
Yeah.
Mandy Giles 41:22
Yeah.
Sara Bybee Fisk 41:23
And when people are out of their boxes, and I think what you bring up about trans joy, meaning that they deserve more than just the right to survive and endure, right?
Mandy Giles 41:37
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 41:37
They deserve celebration and safety and love and authenticity, and then so do I-
Mandy Giles 41:43
Yeah
Sara Bybee Fisk 41:43
... in whatever ways I want to bring that into my own life.
Mandy Giles 41:48
Mm-hmm.
Sara Bybee Fisk 41:48
And whether it's napping on Saturday or whether- ... it's, you know, changing the way I use clothing or makeup or the way that I use my time or my energy or my resources, those boxes, and I think getting out of those boxes, are one of the ways that I have found most personally relevant, not just to bring that joy into my cisgender heterosexual life, right?
Mandy Giles 42:14
Uh-huh.
Sara Bybee Fisk 42:14
But to support my queer kids and my broader queer and trans family members and, and community because my being out of the box gives me so much more just excitement for them to be out of their boxes and supports them. And so I love that you brought that up.
Mandy Giles 42:37
Yeah.
Sara Bybee Fisk 42:37
As we're kind of wrapping up here, I would love to know more about what your work is, like what your official, you know, business and work is, and then-
Mandy Giles 42:46
Mm-hmm
Sara Bybee Fisk 42:46
... I'm also just interested, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wish I would've?
Mandy Giles 42:53
Oh. Um, well, thank you. Uh, so, well, first, Parents of Trans Youth is a social impact business, and we provide learning, support, and community to parents and caregivers of transgender, non-binary, and gender expansive kids and young adults. And oh, we offer all sorts of different programs all over the United States and even around the world. Um, probably our biggest, uh, program right now that I'm most excited about and that's really taken off is an online community for caregivers of trans kids. It is private, confidential, airtight, which is really what a lot of parents are looking for right now 'cause it's kinda scary out there being the parent of a trans kid. You don't really know who to trust. So having that space to talk with other parents, to learn from experts, um, we have guest speakers all the time, all that kinda good stuff. So, um, that's been a really cool program that we've been offering lately. Um, and then, uh, of course, I do, uh, presentations for groups. Um, we have one-on-one support. We've got an introductory online course. Um, I love speaking at rallies, do a lot of advocacy. Like, I'm really busy, um, during the spring in the Texas legislative sessions. Um, but yeah, that's kinda, uh, what Parents of Trans Youth does right now.Um, and then I'm thinking about, um, anything else that you may have not asked. Um, I love our conversation. Um, and I love the way our work has, is just dovetailing together. It's been really fun to see those connections. Um, I don't think so. The one thing, actually, it's interesting we were talking about, like, getting out of our own boxes, that I, doing the work that I'm doing right now, I feel more like myself than I ever have, and it is, it is amazing. I pinch myself every day just to be like... Th- th- that I, I, I bring, and this is such a cliche, but I bring my full self to work every day. Of course, my work is, like, two rooms away. But I was trying to be somebody that I was not in my previous job, like really, honestly, like, masking who I was, and I literally made myself small. Um, like, if you've ever seen Office Space, the, the guy with the stapler who is, like, ends up in the basement, that was me. Like, I literally went- They put me in a cubicle where my elbow was hitting the wall, and finally I was like, "What am I doing here? I am small, and I am so much bigger than this." And that, anyway, that was m- part of why I left that. But I feel, I feel big. I feel, uh, I feel like myself, and I wish that for everybody.I, I, I, um, I'm glad that you're doing the work that you're doing and helping women find their authentic selves and being able to, to be big and, and say no and, and, and get out of their boxes. Um, I think whatever, whether it's just being themselves or finding their own cause and, um, that's just, it's so, it's so important and, and being, being able to live authentically, whoever you are.
Sara Bybee Fisk 46:06
If parents want to find more about your, uh, organization, where should they go?
Mandy Giles 46:13
The best place is our website. It is parentsoftransyouth.com. Uh, all the things are on there. Um, and I am most active on Instagram. That is @parentsoftransyouth. And, um, we also, if you have enjoyed the conversation about more kind of advocacy sort of things, uh, we also have a really great resource that helps you s- do that in a very, very easy way. And that link, and I'll give it to you to put in the show notes, but it's Bitly, B-I-T-L-Y, slash ally to advocate, ally T-O advocate. And that gives you three easy steps, three minutes to turn your allyship into advocacy. So, um, that is like a little, a little free gift for, for your listeners. Um, but yeah, that's where you find all the things.
Sara Bybee Fisk 47:10
Mandy, thank you so much. I'll make sure that all of those things are in the show notes. Um, I really wish we had another 30, 40 minutes to keep talking.
Mandy Giles 47:19
I know.
Sara Bybee Fisk 47:20
And I've just so appreciated, not just, um, the work that you do in the world, but you letting us peek into the changes and who you had to become and some of the ways that that has served you, 'cause I've just really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you.
Mandy Giles 47:34
Oh, you are welcome. I have loved being here. Thanks.
