Episode 149 - We Need To Talk About Codependency
For a long time, codependency has been framed as weakness or passivity—that’s why so many strong, capable, high-functioning women hear that word and immediately think, that is absolutely not me. In this episode, I explore where the concept of codependency actually came from and why that original definition often doesn’t fit. When we widen the lens, codependency starts to look a lot more like over-functioning and organizing your time, energy, and identity around other people. When we can understand it in that way, it opens up a much more honest and hopeful path forward. Here’s what I cover:
Why the original addiction-based definition of codependency misses how it shows up for high-functioning women
How control can turn into codependency and start to replace your self-connection
What it looks like when your identity is built around being needed or emotionally steady
How codependency costs you your time, energy, and brain space, whether it feels like over-functioning or under-functioning
Questions to help you notice where you’re managing others in order to feel okay
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Transcript
00:59
We're going to talk about codependency and specifically where we got that word and why so many strong, intelligent, high functioning, highly capable women hear that word and think that is absolutely not me, but what we can actually learn from what it actually is.
01:20
Because for so long, codependency has been framed as weakness, as passivity. You're not able to say no. You stand by while someone else's chaos and shenanigans cause all kinds of negative results and you just don't do anything about it.
01:36
And when I bring this up with clients that I'm working with, a lot of them share that definition and they don't identify with it at all, right? These women are not passive. They're capable, they are competent, they are endlessly resourceful, often the strongest person in the room.
01:57
But I think if we understand codependency from a different lens, it actually opens up a really beautiful opportunity for growth and how to have a better experience. So let's start at the beginning. The concept of codependency actually came out of work in addiction recovery spaces in the late 20th century.
02:20
And one of the most influential books in that movement was Codependent No More by a woman named Melody Beattie. And for the time, it was an amazing book because it cracked open this very confusing behavior pattern that was observed in groups or families where there was one person who was addicted to alcohol, whatever, and what the other family members did in relationship to that addicted person.
02:53
And it named patterns that were invisible and oftentimes really confusing. Because in addiction, codependency was described as staying with someone when they're harming themselves or others. Enabling.
03:10
That's kind of where this enabling language comes out of where you enable their destructive behavior. You are losing yourself through constant over-accommodation. And you're not able to detach from this other person, even when what they're doing is something that is clearly unhealthy.
03:32
And that framing made a lot of sense inside of those addiction systems. This was a really important book that mattered a lot because it helped people understand why loving someone with an addiction could slowly kind of erase you.
03:49
And it gave language to pain that was just kind of normal and had been normal for generations. But the problem was, is that that model framed codependency primarily as under functioning, not setting limits, enduring clearly messed up disruptive behavior, this chronic self-sacrifice, avoidance, collapsing or being helpless emotionally.
04:20
Someone who didn't believe that they could survive without the other person. And they were constantly just hoping that the other person would change. Now, a lot of those behaviors are true of us when we are stuck in people pleasing.
04:35
I'm not trying to say that that definition doesn't work and doesn't have value because absolutely we can each see places or situations in which we do that. I just think it's incomplete because when the only image of someone who is codependent is someone who is powerless, who is overwhelmed, who's unable to act.
05:01
That feels very weak and it feels very passive. There's lots of distress and hand wringing, but nobody ever intervenes or asserts themselves or says, I'm not putting up with this anymore. This has got to stop.
05:18
And that's what makes the definition feel so alien to high functioning women. Because that's not what's happening, right? What gets missed or what I think needs to be added is that the old definition frames codependency as under functioning.
05:40
And I think we need to include what happens when the woman doesn't collapse, when she doesn't disappear and she's not powerless and feeling confused and wringing her hands. The original definition really assumes the problem is a lack of action.
05:57
But for many of us, the problem isn't passivity. It's too much action, taking too much responsibility, inserting, doing, planning, analyzing, controlling too much. When I first ran into this first definition, it was through my participation in a 12-step program.
06:21
If you've listened to some of my earlier episodes in the beginning, when my husband and I are talking, we talk about the time when we were still attending church and he was looking at pornography, which in Mormon land is a big no-no.
06:35
And so the response from our church leaders at the time was to send us to these 12-step addiction programs, because obviously, if you're looking at porn, you have a sex addiction or a porn addiction.
06:46
That's not always true, but that was the assumption. And then I went to a separate 12-step for codependence and we read codependent no more. And I just kept thinking, this is not me, right? I'm not passively standing by wringing my hands and afraid to bring this up with my husband.
07:07
I was strong. I was keeping track of everything, right? I was very observant and I had an endless ability to critique and to adjust and to plan and to try and control outcomes. I had scheduled check-ins where, you know, we would talk about his progress.
07:25
I had all of these systems in place for figuring out if he was looking at porn or not looking at porn. And so I was not like losing myself quietly over in the corner, crying tears and wringing my hands.
07:41
I was over functioning. I was holding everything together. This is what I was telling myself at the time, like, like, I am going to fix this, right? We, we are going to do this based on all of these outcomes in this spreadsheet.
07:56
I don't know that I actually have a spreadsheet, but I wouldn't put it past me for it to be the one time that I did make a spreadsheet. Like all of these markers will show us that you are moving in the right direction.
08:07
And I could come up with that stuff all day long. And so I didn't think that codependency would be my issue at all. But a really beautiful change has happened over the last little while as therapists and other thinkers have begun to apply the concept of codependency outside of just these addiction spaces, the definition has changed.
08:36
And so there's a lot more discussion of control disguised as taking care of people. And maybe you can think back to what I was just doing with my husband and his quote unquote porn addiction. Like, did I want him to think I was caring for him?
08:54
Sure, but I was controlling the hell out of him, right? Identity built around being needed. That is a really beautiful addition to this codependency discussion that we're having where, okay, what happens when your whole identity is built around being indispensable to other people?
09:15
That's not under-functioning. That's not quiet, tear-stained hand-wringing in the corner. That's over-functioning, over-responsibility. And then the third really important thing that has been added to the conversation about codependency is that we used to look at self-abandonment as some kind of moral high ground, right?
09:40
That I am so strong. I am so good. I've completely given myself over to solving this problem. And I just want to shout out authors like Terry Cole, who's the author of Too Much, and Pia Melody is a different trauma-informed thinker who have really helped us expand this codependency lens a little bit larger.
10:01
So here's what I want you to think about. Codependency, how I have found it to be most valuable to define for me and those I work with. It's not about not being able to set limits or not being able to say no.
10:17
It is about organizing all of your time, energy, and identity around managing others so that you can feel better and your own needs become optional. Because if you think back to what I was doing with my husband, my feeling better was dependent on him acting the way I thought he should be acting.
10:44
And I think you could think, if you slow down right now and just ask yourself this question, do I have a relationship where I insert myself, where I organize my time and my energy and maybe even my identity around them doing or feeling better so that I can do and feel better.
11:07
I think a lot of us have that type of relationship because what this looks like in real life is someone who's codependent, they know exactly how someone else is feeling and they don't always know how they're feeling.
11:22
They spend a lot of time mentally rehearsing conversations to prevent disappointment or conflict. They know how to automatically adjust their body language, their tone, or their needs to keep things running smoothly.
11:37
Sometimes they're the emotional processor for everyone else. I have a client who serves this function in her office. Everybody is always coming into her office, closing the door and wanting to talk through office stuff going on with her, right?
11:52
She processes emotions with and for everyone. People who jump in to fix problems no one asked you to fix. Staying in relationships where you are essential, everybody relies on you, but you are not supported the same way.
12:09
It's the person who remembers everything and anticipates what's going on and can kind of plan and organize around what other people need, not always knowing what you need. And here's the biggest one that really kind of hits me between the eyes.
12:27
Taking responsibility for outcomes that aren't yours. Caring about something more than the other person does, so much so that you have the plan, you have the resources, you're the one that's going to make it happen.
12:43
And what's confusing is that that looks like success from the outside. It's what we were taught we were supposed to be doing. The strong one, the smart one, the one who keeps it all running. We were taught if you do those things for other people, those things will be done for you.
13:03
And that's not the case because that's not how it works. Codependency is expensive. It costs so much time, hours spent thinking about other people's needs, moods, their reactions, and planning for that.
13:23
The energy output is incredible. That constant hypervigilance, the emotional labor that you're doing for other people, the way that that is just exhausting. Yeah, that's part of the cost. It costs brain space, managing relationships instead of being in your own life and solving your problems.
13:47
And I mean, resources, that just goes unsaid, right? Overgiving, overdoing financially, professionally, emotionally, while sometimes undergiving to yourself. It's not free to be codependent. It's just what we expect of women.
14:08
And whether your codependency feels a little bit more like the underfunctioning or the over functioning, it doesn't really matter. It's costing you your life, your time, your energy, your brain space.
14:23
And that's why it's so important to talk about. There's another part of this that I really want to address with some compassion and understanding because it makes so much sense. We don't hold on to these codependent behaviors because there's something wrong with us.
14:38
We hold on to them because they worked at some point in our past lives. And for many of us in our present lives, being competent, hopeful, all that emotional attunement that we learned was how we felt safe and belonged.
14:57
We weren't setting out to manage other people strictly to control them in the beginning. It was actually about preventing bad things from happening. So many of us had this little voice that said, listen, if you stay ahead of this, if you always know how to anticipate what other people need and want, that's how you control bad things from happening.
15:20
And for a lot of high functioning women, codependency becomes then part of our identity. We are the one who gets shit done, the strong one, the reliable one, the one who can handle it. And so the identity risk is real here.
15:38
It's not just about changing our behavior. It's who am I if I'm not always showing up in this capacity for other people? What do I do then? I think that was a question that I literally asked. Well, if I'm not going to spend all of this time managing and controlling what my husband is doing so that I can feel better, what am I going to do?
16:01
I have no idea. It's not just a behavioral change. It's a change in how I see myself. It can also mean disappointing people, right? All these people that you have been kind of smoothing the way for, they are going to feel some of the discomfort that you have been removing from their lives.
16:22
What is that going to be like? That's not nothing. And so if it feels scary to let go of some of these behaviors or to even think about it, that makes so much sense, right? It just means that this thing that used to keep you safe and might still in some of your relational situations be how you feel valuable, how you feel recognized and good.
16:47
Yeah, that matters. That means something. I just want to leave you with some questions, not as diagnosis, right? Nobody is doing anything wrong here. You are simply showing up in your relations the way you were taught to that got you safe and connected, right?
17:04
There's nothing wrong with you. I am curious about the energy expenditure, though, the time, the resources, the brain space, the way that this is showing up in your day-to-day life in terms of costing all this energy, you might want to have a different experience.
17:22
So here's some questions. And I want you to just consider. And if this episode really resonates for you, I want to talk to you about it. I want to talk to you about how you can make the switch from spending all of this time and energy managing other people so that you can feel better to just feeling better.
17:40
So here are the questions. How much time do I spend tracking other people's moods, needs, or reactions? And do I spend that much time checking in on myself? Question number two. Do I feel responsible for keeping things running smoothly or staying stable or okay in my relationships?
18:10
Meaning, when something feels off, do I feel an instinct to fix, to manage, or to somehow compensate for that? Question number three. Do I earn my place in relationships by being useful, competent, or emotionally steady?
18:33
So that gets to like, how am I valued? Am I valuable for what I can handle or for who I am? Question number four, do I rehearse conversations in my head to avoid other people feeling disappointed or to manage conflict or misunderstanding?
18:54
So am I planning how to say things so that no one gets upset? And last question, when I imagine expressing my own clear need or truth, what does my body feel? Do I feel fear? Do I feel pressure to soften it?
19:17
Does it feel risky? So you begin to get a sense of how codependency might be showing up for you. And that's where the work begins, right? Being aware and then wanting to have a different experience. Because what I can tell you now is that the amount of time and energy that I spent trying to manage and control other people's outcomes and congratulating myself for being the person who cared enough to do that, right?
19:58
All that time and energy, all it created in my relationships was distance and contention and lack of trust. So what I want for you is the same thing that I want for me, which is I want to have relationships that feel mutual and feel reciprocal.
20:17
Are there times when people will need and want my help because I'm amazing? Yes. Same with you. You're amazing. You're capable. You have great instincts, right? You know what needs to be done. Is that valuable?
20:30
Yes. But I also want you to be able to show up as you with your needs, with your wants, with your dreams, and have there be place for both of those. Because the price of this codependency is that so much of your time and energy gets invested into other people that there's not a lot of it for you.
20:51
And that's what I hope you'll get curious about. And if you want to talk with me about how we can work on that together, use the link that's in my bio to set up a call. Because what is on the other side of codependency in your relationships is confidence and secure connection.
21:07
Thanks for listening. I'll see you next week.
